Right? Left! Left? Right!

[Richard Cribb]

What is probably the most puzzling about the political discussions in OT is, IMHO, the frivolous use of the term left and right.
It is not unusual to see certain people claim that there are so many "leftists" around here, even to the extent to dominate the place one is to believe. Funny that. Because when I look around, I fail to see this, from my perspective it would seem that except for one or two communists, just as many anarchists (the real ones mind you), and some 20-odd socialists and genuine social democrats it is rather packed with people who appear to be living quite in harmony with the dominant socio-economical system,which was last time I checked (about 10 minutes ago, capitalism. But then they should belong to the political right, shouldn't they?
So I think it might prove beneficial to clear this up a bit.
And here is my suggestion:
Outline in as few words as possible your political affiliation, whether you consider yourself as a leftist or a rightist and the reason(s) for doing so. And note well that I have left the opinion "centrist" out of the poll. I am sorry, but for me that is like being a bit pregnant. This time you have to chose sides.
Thanks in forehand for your cooperation.

 

[Mise]

"Left" and "right" are pretty useless terms. It depends on what we're talking about, but I usually agree with people who also identify as left wing, and disagree with people who identify as right wing. I usually use the terms "left wing" and "right wing" disparagingly, though, because people who identify themselves as either of those two terms usually see the world only in those two terms.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

I am neither. I am a thrid positionist. I am opposed to both capitalism and socialism. I am a social conservative.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm totally fessing up to be leftist. Not as leftist maybe as my posts might suggest, but I have figured out that posting central opinions don't get any fun responses no matter if they're a little bit left or right.

In a nutshell: I am leftist because I don't believe that the "right wing" solution works any better than the "left wing" solution economically or socially. Both have merits, both have problems. The left wing solution though is a bit more humane towards the less fortunate. In my humble opinion, which I will not debate in this instance. I'm telling ya The downside is that it creates a system which can be taken advantage of. But the right wing driven system has this flaw as well, only the advantage is taken by a different ... class ... of people.

Having written this, you can disregard it again, since there is no such thing as a "left wing" or "right wing" solution, since there are millions of ways where both can be and are combined in the real world. I am not in favour of strictly socialist or strictly capitalist societies and anyone who is, is a little scary. But to shoehorn myself into one of the options presented I am using the black and white model

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I have chosen Right due to my supportive attitude towards indivdual initiative as well as indivdual freedom which to my knowledge can only be implemented in a free-market-system.
But as there are also quite a few ideas of the political right I dislike as well as ideas of the political left I like and as the definition of political right and left differs from country to country, culture to culture and person to person it will be hard to draw a valid conclusion from this pole.

 

[Formaldehyde]

You forgot centrist.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

You forgot centrist.

Then everybody would chose that. How boring

 

[classical_hero]

I never realised that capitalism was a political system? Thanks for telling me that. I always had it as an economic system, not a political one.

 

[Kerozine]

Wikipedia:

Left-right politics

Left-right politics or the left-right political spectrum is a common way of classifying political positions, political ideologies, or political parties along a one-dimensional political spectrum, with the far-left being radical, the Left liberal, the Right conservative, and the far-right reactionary.

A search of 'left liberal' leads to:

Social liberalism

Social liberalism is a reformulation of classical liberalism, which saw unrestrained capitalism as a hindrance to true freedom. Instead of the negative freedom of classical liberalism, social liberals offered positive freedom that would allow individuals to prosper with public assistance in health, education and welfare.

Though I'm more acquainted with:

Social democracy

Social democracy is a political ideology of the political left and centre-left that emerged in the late 19th century from the socialist movement and continues to exert influence worldwide.

[...]

In general, contemporary social democrats support:

Spoiler :

* A mixed economy consisting of both private enterprise and publicly owned or subsidized programs of education, health care, child care and related social services for all citizens.
* An extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by socialists), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.
* Government bodies that regulate private enterprise in the interests of workers and consumers by ensuring labor rights (i.e. supporting worker access to trade unions), consumer protections, and fair market competition.
* Environmentalism and environmental protection laws; for example, funding for alternative energy resources and laws designed to combat global warming.
* A value-added/progressive taxation system to fund government expenditures.
* A secular and a socially progressive policy, although this varies markedly in degree.
* Immigration and multiculturalism.
* Fair trade over free trade.
* A foreign policy supporting the promotion of democracy, the protection of human rights and where possible, effective multilateralism.
* Advocacy of social justice, human rights, social rights, civil rights and civil liberties.

Yeah, lefty. 'unrestrained capitalism' is the keyword here.

 

[RedRalph]

Left-wing, obviously.

 

[Phlegmak]

What is probably the most puzzling about the political discussions in OT is, IMHO, the frivolous use of the term left and right.
It is not unusual to see certain people claim that there are so many "leftists" around here, even to the extent to dominate the place one is to believe. Funny that. Because when I look around, I fail to see this, from my perspective it would seem that except for one or two communists, just as many anarchists (the real ones mind you), and some 20-odd socialists and genuine social democrats it is rather packed with people who appear to be living quite in harmony with the dominant socio-economical system,which was last time I checked (about 10 minutes ago, capitalism. But then they should belong to the political right, shouldn't they?
So I think it might prove beneficial to clear this up a bit.
And here is my suggestion:
Outline in as few words as possible your political affiliation, whether you consider yourself as a leftist or a rightist and the reason(s) for doing so. And note well that I have left the opinion "centrist" out of the poll. I am sorry, but for me that is like being a bit pregnant. This time you have to chose sides.
Thanks in forehand for your cooperation.

This is a very Ann Coulter view of the world. "You're either a conservative or a liberal, and nothing else."

Your poll options are bad, so I can't vote. And I'm neither left nor right, since those are meaningless. I'm not a centrist either. Just independent and unlabeled.

 

[Snovvdog]

I'm a right wing guy compared to the average European, but in the eyes of the Americans, I'd probably still be very left wing.
I always vote for a liberal-conservative party. I dislike social democrats. And I absolutely hate socialism, communism and radicalism ( green party's). I also hate religion and think it's backwards and primitive.
Also dislike nationalism, such a pointless trait.

 

[REDY]

Liberal rightist.

 

[Kerozine]

I'm a right wing guy compared to the average European, but in the eyes of the Americans, I'd probably still be very left wing.
I always vote for a liberal-conservative party. I dislike social democrats. And I absolutely hate socialism, communism and radicalism ( green party's).
Also dislike nationalism, such a pointless trait.

Can you state why?

 

[Richard Cribb]

You forgot centrist.

No I didn't. I deliberatedly excluded it. Kindly read the OP once more if you don't believe me and see why I did so.

This is a very Ann Coulter view of the world. "You're either a conservative or a liberal, and nothing else."

Funny how some people never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
First of all, I think that in political terms you are much closer to ms.Coulter than me. Much closer. The only thing I believe I have in common with ms.Coulter is that I look horrible in short skirts.
Secondly, I didn't mention "conservatives" and "liberals". So it seems to me that you have a very narrow political spectre. If there are many here like you, that is interesting.

Your poll options are bad, so I can't vote. And I'm neither left nor right, since those are meaningless. I'm not a centrist either. Just independent and unlabeled.

My poll is good. I am quite proud of it actually. It only neglects interesting massproduced individualists who have an uncanny tendency to turn out to love conformity a lot. I am sorry that you don't vote but that is up to you. No need for you to inform me about that though.

 

[jessiecat]

Leftist and broadly socialist. Influenced both by Marx and Engels on the one hand and some 19thC anarchists on the other so maybe anarcho-socialist to coin a phrase.To Europeans I would be classed as part of the Radical Left. To Americans I would be classed as coming from another planet.

 

[Snovvdog]

Can you state why?

Because they are too progressive for my liking, they want to tax everything I like in life. They are too much willing to listen to the environmental concerns of the more left wing party's. And they are generally upping the state debt here. Spending too much money on things that won't help us at all. Like foreign aid ( including to countries like Iran, which from what I can recall burned our flag on more than 1 occasion).

10 years or so ago the PvdA ( labour party) upped the tax on petrol by 25 cents per liter ( about 12 euro cents now) and decisions like that simply annoy me to this day.

Also because of the left wing party's, a 7 km long (missing) bit of motorway between The Hague and Rotterdam is being agued over for over 50 years now, while the parallel A13 motorway is congested daily. They want to spend 600 million euros on it to build some kind of environmental friendly version of it, rather than just planting it down in the ground prepared for it for 170 million.

I'm a materialist, I love fast and big cars, I love the newest gadgets and electronics, I love technology. And feel I'm being restricted on all those by the left wing party's.

 

[aelf]

Ohh, the edgy non-conformist guerilla-brand politics is here. Now where are the nihilists?

I'm quite overwhelmingly left, since I think I'm in between Frankfurt school and critical Marxism as of now. That also means I disagree with orthodox Marxists in some respects. And I don't really subscribe to the belief that there's a single viable plan. I think the focus is what matters.

I also used to think that I was center, but I realised that center just ends up being on the right most of the time. I chose instead to go to the left, since it's the more ethical way.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, if you're going to slot me, I guess I'm a rightie.
I believe that products should be generated via a series of entrepreneurs, and that regulation should mainly be used to prevent feedback effects
I believe in property rights, including intellectual.
I believe that a State has the right to apply power in self-defense, and may tax to do so.

Although I do approve of a minimal social support system being mandated through taxation, since this seems to be underfunded normally. This is because I'm 90% softie and 10% of the opinion that 'equal opportunity' means just that.

 

[Phlegmak]

Funny how some people never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
First of all, I think that in political terms you are much closer to ms.Coulter than me. Much closer. The only thing I believe I have in common with ms.Coulter is that I look horrible in short skirts.
Secondly, I didn't mention "conservatives" and "liberals". So it seems to me that you have a very narrow political spectre. If there are many here like you, that is interesting.


My poll is good. I am quite proud of it actually. It only neglects interesting massproduced individualists who have an uncanny tendency to turn out to love conformity a lot. I am sorry that you don't vote but that is up to you. No need for you to inform me about that though.

You're just doing it again. Labeling the world and sticking people into meaningless categories. And I know you didn't mention conservative and liberal (and it's irrelevant that you didn't use those particular labels), but you're doing the exact same thing as Coulter. I didn't say it before but I'll say it now: it's intellectually dead.