Riots in Tottenham after Mark Duggan shooting protest

[Thoughtful Thug]

Okay - so I get your argument. And I still reject it, but we will have to see if it will even be possible to make an objective analysis of who was involved in the rioting and why.

Quite obvious that these are young angry adults venting their frustration against their local authorities. Can't you see that?!

 

[Arwon]

Some heartening footage around of Turkish and Kurdish families/shop owners in Dalston protecting their community.

 

[Ayn Rand]

The problem is the concept of human nature itself. How do you define it? How can you measure and analyze it objectively?

Defining it objectively would be simple - you would only need to differentiate it from the behaviour of animals. The question then becomes one of developing understanding to acquire knowledge of human behaviour and motives - that is not a completed project yet, but the concept still has validity because we have some knowledge and will doubtless increase it.

We get this knowledge by seeing what humans are capable of, and the nature of their struggle in resource-constrained environments etc.

 

[Traitorfish]

The problem is the concept of human nature itself. How do you define it? How can you measure and analyze it objectively?

Human nature (hu‧man ‧na‧ture), noun

1. Whatever the hell I want it to mean at any given moment

 

[Quackers]

They're still slashing maintenance, not to mention the plummeting number of jobs- there's more to the financial hardship of working class students than fees- and still have to put up with less bang for their buck because of funding cuts. That alone would cause some frustration.

I know EMA has gone down from £30/week to what...£10? I think that only applies to college students. I never got it Anyway it's an incentive to go to college, if your only going for £30/week it doesn't mean your learning anything. Any a bit OT.
I woulldn't loot Curry's over that, cuz my pocket money's gone down.

 

[Ajidica]

Some heartening footage around of Turkish and Kurdish families/shop owners in Dalston protecting their community.

So those darn immigrants aren't destroying the bedrock of British-ness?

 

[Arwon]

I'm sure the Daily Mail will get right on that angle.

 

[Traitorfish]

I know EMA has gone down from £30/week to what...£10? I think that only applies to college students. I never got it Anyway it's an incentive to go to college, if your only going for £30/week it doesn't mean your learning anything. Any a bit OT.

A lot of people couldn't survive at college without that money, or at the very least would be forced to seriously weigh up the possible future benefits of college against the immediate benefits of work- and when you're living in a world with crappy job prospects for the unskilled today, and crappy job prospects for the educated tomorrow, that's rather like asking people which one of their testicles they'd prefer to be kicked in. It's understandable that people get frustrated with that, even if the exact expression of that that frustration may be counter-productive, to put it lightly.

I woulldn't loot Curry's over that, cuz my pocket money's gone down.

Sloppy generalisation.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Here's an impressive video footage about an assault on cops:
http://yfrog.com/0wtduz

I don't know if it's because of bad organization or because of Cameron's cuts on public expenses, but 8 poor cops to stop rioters is clearly not enough.

 

[Arwon]

"You know what the London riots prove? Whatever hobby horse I've been banging on about all along."

 

[nonconformist]

Rumours Nottinham city centre condoned off, some violence in Bristol

Some in Toxteth

 

[useless]

Jesus Christ, this is spreading, fast.

 

[Traitorfish]

Here's an impressive video footage about an assault on cops:
http://yfrog.com/0wtduz

I don't know if it's because of bad organization or because of Cameron's cuts on public expenses, but 8 poor cops to stop rioters is clearly not enough.

I would say that it's just the police finding out that they're not as powerful as they think they are. We're used to an idea of riot police as being an immovable object, one that has been re-enforced in the UK thanks to the largely successful tactics of containment used against protesters over the last few years, but what this whole episode makes clear is the extent to which the success of those tactics relied, as unobvious as it may seem, on a certain degree of consent from the majority of protesters, in their own containment. When faced with very angry with nothing to lose and few limits on how far they're willing to take it, the police find that their ability to actually coerce large populations isn't what they believed it to be. It is very possible that this may end with the army being sent in as re-enforcements.

Edit: Remember this, from the student protests?


Link to video.

Prophetic?

 

[nonconformist]

Alleged BBM message sent prior to Enfield riots:

"Everyone in edmonton enfield woodgreen everywhere in north link up at enfield town station 4 o clock sharp!!!! Start leaving ur yards n linking up with you niggas. Guck da feds, bring your ballys and your bags trollys, cars vans, hammers the lot!! Keep sending this around to bare man, make sure no snitch boys get dis!!! What ever ends your from put your ballys on link up and cause havic, just rob everything. Police can't stop it. Dead the fires though!! Rebroadcast!!!!!"

 

[Ajidica]

If British people actualy speak like that, I will fly over to the UK just to hear that.

 

[nonconformist]

Bristol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5XOu2BS0gk

 

[W|M]

X-Post.

Go to certain areas of London (such as Hackney) and you will find that people do in fact speak like that.

 

[Traitorfish]

Bristol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5XOu2BS0gk

Anyone else fancy pushing the "mindless thugs" line, and somehow explain why "thugs" across the country have taken it upon themselves to leap to arms, or are we going to start accepting that this is borne of some very real social tensions?

 

[Marla_Singer]

I would say that it's just the police finding out that they're not as powerful as they think they are. We're used to an idea of riot police as being an immovable object, one that has been re-enforced in the UK thanks to the largely successful tactics of containment used against protesters over the last few years, but what this whole episode makes clear is the extent to which the success of those tactics relied, as unobvious as it may seem, on a certain degree of consent from the majority of protesters, in their own containment. When faced with very angry with nothing to lose and few limits on how far they're willing to take it, the police find that their ability to actually coerce large populations isn't what they believed it to be. It is very possible that this may end with the army being sent in as re-enforcements.

Well I know England is a country of gentlemen but here in France, that's not what you would expect.

There would be at least 30 to 40 cops forming a compact line on the street from wall to wall. The 3 miserable groups of 2 can't impress anyone. I guess there are so many riots that police isn't anymore able to handle it. This is kind of crazy.

 

[Quackers]

A lot of people couldn't survive at college without that money, or at the very least would be forced to seriously weigh up the possible future benefits of college against the immediate benefits of work- and when you're living in a world with crappy job prospects for the unskilled today, and crappy job prospects for the educated tomorrow, that's rather like asking people which one of their testicles they'd prefer to be kicked in. It's understandable that people get frustrated with that, even if the exact expression of that that frustration may be counter-productive, to put it lightly.

Well I'd like to see evidence for it's effectiveness. I know a friend of mine qualified for £30, he had his own car. Sounds like a middle class benefit.
Personally I'd do away with it