Aleksey_aka_al
Smiley
Angry kids'll have an occupation for a weekend besides beer and serious-business talk at kitchen. They might even disrupt order and so the study day in Monday, what is highly desirable cause New Year's holidays are close 
Russia a democracy after all - sort of
- Thread starter Terxpahseyton
- Start date
Rulle_Kebab
Warlord
Angry kids'll have an occupation for a weekend besides beer and serious-business talk at kitchen. They might even disrupt order and so the study day in Monday, what is highly desirable cause New Year's holidays are close
Thats the spirit! Make a day out of it! Why don't you get a sixpack and join in? I would love to but would need some harder spirits since I imagine it is pretty cold... atleast over there by the pacific!
Rulle_Kebab
Warlord
AND if you keep close to the demonstrators from FEMEM there is a bonus 
Aleksey_aka_al
Smiley
Heh, right, that's better than political chatter on forumsAND if you keep close to the demonstrators from FEMEM there is a bonus
Aleksey_aka_al
Smiley
anandus
Errorist
So far the rally for free elections is becoming quite what the organisers had hoped to be, 40.000 protesters. (Moscow police estimates are at 20.000).
Although the national television is saying it are only 7000, at least they're acknowledging that there are demonstrations, which is a big change since the rest of the week where the demonstration for freedom were completely ignored by the state TV.
It's probably the biggest demonstration since (the fall of the) Soviet-Union.
Although the national television is saying it are only 7000, at least they're acknowledging that there are demonstrations, which is a big change since the rest of the week where the demonstration for freedom were completely ignored by the state TV.
It's probably the biggest demonstration since (the fall of the) Soviet-Union.
Aleksey_aka_al
Smiley
Even football fans made more than that...
anandus
Errorist
When were football fans demonstrating? And for what? Free elections as well?
Mind you, I'm only repeating what I read in the news sources. And they haven't mentioned a football-demonstration.
But I must say that it's good that the people of Moscow, or at least a part of them dare taking the street. I hope it's going to have a positive effect by showing other Muscovites that they don't have to be scared to demonstrate and claim what's rightfully theirs.
Aleksey_aka_al
Smiley
Those who are there now were always there demonstrating (or in school). And what they are saying there... it is sooooo populist and stupid.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Wouldn't it be nice if Russia erupted in mass protests against the regime?
(hey, we're allowed to dream, aren't we?)
(hey, we're allowed to dream, aren't we?)
Winner
Diverse in Unity
It still doesn't have the kind of public support to really reach the scale that could topple the regime. But at the very least it will teach the opposition a lesson in how to do this, and people won't be as afraid to come and protest the next time.
Too bad the elections were not held in summer, the cold weather must be counter-productive
Snorrius
Librivorator
No. I've just returned from business trip abroad and too lazy to go anywhere except forums and image boards.
Terxpahseyton
Nobody
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 10,759
No it was not. Go back and read what you actually wrote. I wouldn't have as much of a quarrel with this statement.
It's hard to find articles by major news stations on the final election, where the "pro-West-guy" won.
But I found one, from the BBC.
See?
But were the "irregularities" of the final election less of the topic than the irregularities before? Of course they were. First the final result finally also matched what was predicted by representative polling. Secondly, change (more democracy) is most of the time more emphasized than things that stay the same (still democratic deficiencies). And thirdly, Western media surely has one major bias: Bias towards democratic movements in undemocratic countries. So it has a general tendency to make those look good. That may or may not be to your liking, but it is a long way from there to your allegation.I wrote that Western mass media will declare elections which were not won by pro-Western, "democratic" candidate, rigged. As they pretty much always do. You called this grave allegation and conspiracy theory. If you disagree, give example of elections with participation of democratic candidate, lost by him and not reported as rigged.
Did you read your quote?
First elections were won by Yanukovich and observers complained of "serious irregularities".
Re-run (where pro-Western Yuschenko won) "has been much fairer"
Terxpahseyton
Nobody
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 10,759
I already did. The 2011 Ukraine election. Though I am not sure if there really was no fraud at all. Some kind of fraud may be always present in Ukraine. But it wasn't a big deal.
Another example: The guy in Afghanistan is Pro-West and there are many reports on election fraud there.
I guess you just confuse correlation with causation (made possible by an unhealthy dose of baseless assumptions and/or misinformation on your part): Democracy kind of correlates with being Pro-Western. Not ultimately of course. But there is a certain correlation, especially in Europe.
Well dude it was.
Now frankly, I am growing tired of this discussion. Unless you have an actually factually based example for your conspiracy theory (which would still not prove it, but would at least be a good first step), I am out.
No, you didn't. Neither Yanukovich nor Timoshenko was pro-Western.
I gave you example - elections of 2004 in Ukraine. You answered with citation which exactly proves my point. I don't know why, may be you mistook Yanukovich and Yuschenko, they have similar surnames when written in English.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
But the Russian elections were rigged, from the start even. I don't mean the obvious kind of rigging ("our great leader won with 98.9% percent of all votes"), but generally a more "subtle" one. Many parties were not even allowed to stand in the elections, the Kremlin-controlled TV channels ignored the opposition altogether, and Gods only know what happens in the regions.
In short, even if the voting itself was relatively free of ballot rigging and other kinds of cheating, the systematic repression of the opposition creates a political environment in which free and fair elections are impossible to be held.
And when Yanukovich won the latest election, the West recognized that, if grudgingly. So much for your conspiracy theories.
Aleksey_aka_al
Smiley
Do you REALLY want neo-Nazi and radical nationalists to have seat in the Russian parlament?
That is one of your so loved conspiracy theories.
