Russia a democracy after all - sort of

[Leoreth]

Do you REALLY want neo-Nazi and radical nationalists to have seat in the Russian parlament?

Yeah, because they're the only ones who would oppose United Russia. Just look at the demonstrations, all full of skinheads there.

The accusation that this was all engineered by Western mass media is pretty ridiculous (maybe you want to team up with mghani in your crusade against them?), considering that this was clearly exposed by Russians themselves on internet blogs etc.

 

[Winner]

Do you REALLY want neo-Nazi and radical nationalists to have seat in the Russian parlament?

Because all the parties (or potential political platforms) not allowed to take part in the political process are, of course, nationalist and radical. I mean besides the nationalist radicals who actually are in the parliament. Yeah, right.

EDIT: Also, what Leoreth said.

That is one of your so loved conspiracy theories.

That's a fact my friend.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

You know what, I WANT the legitimate government to go, cause 1) formally Soviet Union is still legitimate to recover, 2) the majority are pro-socialist/communist now. So we would be Soviet again, and intervene to Czech inner politics ourselves again, so they would not intervene to ours, and highly possible this time we would be adequately aggressive compared to Western "peacekeeping" and "democratization" around the world, and would not go for compromises against our own interests as we always done leading to dissolution of our own state and appearing of UR, at the first place.

Yeah, I like that idea.

<gone to support potential political powers repressed by Putin's regime>

 

[Winner]

Yeah, we Czechs are plotting to take control of Russia. This and the other atrocities we've committed against the peaceful Russian nation really call for a revenge!

Spoiler :

 

[Leoreth]

You know what, I WANT the legitimate government to go, cause 1) formally Soviet Union is still legitimate to recover, 2) the majority are pro-socialist/communist now. So we would be Soviet again, and intervene to Czech inner politics ourselves again, so they would not intervene to ours, and highly possible this time we would be adequately aggressive compared to Western "peacekeeping" and "democratization" around the world, and would not go for compromises against our own interests as we always done leading to dissolution of our own state and appearing of UR, at the first place.

Yeah, I like that idea.

<gone to support potential political powers repressed by Putin's regime>

Yeah, all the problems Russia had in the last two decades came from being to soft on other countries. Riiight.

Also interesting that you automatically equate socialism/communism with a return to open imperialism.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Yeah, all the problems Russia had in the last two decades came from being to soft on other countries. Riiight.

The first thing they've done when dissolving the Union was giving the U.S. significant ocean territory, when Shevardnadze (the second president of Georgia to come) was drawing the line and his arm twitched making ceded territory larger.

Yeah, that's not soft. That's HARD...

 

[red_elk]

But the Russian elections were rigged, from the start even. I don't mean the obvious kind of rigging ("our great leader won with 98.9% percent of all votes"), but generally a more "subtle" one. Many parties were not even allowed to stand in the elections, the Kremlin-controlled TV channels ignored the opposition altogether, and Gods only know what happens in the regions.

And I'm not arguing against this, if you read what I'm writing here.

And when Yanukovich won the latest election, the West recognized that, if grudgingly. So much for your conspiracy theories.

In third time - in the latest elections the alternative to Yanukovich was arguably even more pro-Russian. She is now being convicted in Ukrainian court for signing "anti-Ukrainian" gas contracts with Russia in 2009 when she was prime minister.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I gave you example - elections of 2004 in Ukraine. You answered with citation which exactly proves my point. I don't know why, may be you mistook Yanukovich and Yuschenko, they have similar surnames when written in English.

I actually did misread the second bolded part. My bad, that one is on me. Still, it didn't say "perfect", but "much fairer". A valid description from where I stand. But yeah, as already said, there is some bias in Western news. And that is an example of such bias.

 

[Leoreth]

The first thing they've done when dissolving the Union was giving the U.S. significant ocean territory, when Shevardnadze (the second president of Georgia to come) was drawing the line and his arm twitched making ceded territory larger.

Yeah, that's not soft. That's HARD...

Don't know about that particular case, but again it sounds more like complaining about a mere insult to a former superpower rather than something that caused actual problems.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Don't know about that particular case, but again it sounds more like complaining about a mere insult to a former superpower rather than something that caused actual problems.

That's not just hand shaking, the agreement is illegitimate by international law, and there was no reason to do it. Those territories are fish, oil and gas, strategical security, and the agreement means these are lost and precedent of total weakness on international arena gained.

During the Yeltsin era Western companies exploited resources in Russia almost for free, funnier than that, there were cases when Russian government had to pay them for that.

And with Putin much of such weak self-harming politics when Western interests are preferred to own has ended. That is why he is so hated and biased in the West.

So far the rally for free elections is becoming quite what the organisers had hoped to be, 40.000 protesters. (Moscow police estimates are at 20.000).

That's hardly 20K, even the police estimations might be overstated:

Spoiler :

 

[Yeekim]

Putin (calling mother): Hello, Mother! I won the elections!
Mother: Oh, wow! Honestly?
Putin: Mother... !!

 

[Snorrius]

I actually did misread the second bolded part. My bad, that one is on me. Still, it didn't say "perfect", but "much fairer". A valid description from where I stand. But yeah, as already said, there is some bias in Western news. And that is an example of such bias.

We call it "propaganda".

 

[Terxpahseyton]

If that's propaganda, then calling it propaganda is sure as hell propaganda as well.

 

[red_elk]

Propaganda in Western mass media exists and calling it propaganda is just calling things by their proper names.
Description of Russian-Georgian war is the most obvious example:

Spoiler :

On the picture - hospital in South Ossetia.

 

[Yeekim]

"Propaganda" doesn't equal to "misleading, scandalous headlines with an aim to increase sales no matter what". That is called yellow press. At least that is how I understand it.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Doesn't matter if propaganda is done through yellow press or not; if it is systematic it is still propaganda, and it is systematic.

 

[Winner]

Another thing Russians usually have a trouble grasping - you see, in the West we have this thing called "freedom of the press", which means any idiot can write and publish pretty much anything he wants. It's not as if the government was writing articles about Russia and ordering the press to publish them.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Another thing Russians usually have a trouble grasping - you see, in the West we have this thing called "freedom of the press", which means any idiot can write and publish pretty much anything he wants. It's not as if the government was writing articles about Russia and ordering the press to publish them.

Why? Government is restricted in freedom of speech?

 

[innonimatu]

Another thing Russians usually have a trouble grasping - you see, in the West we have this thing called "freedom of the press", which means any idiot can write and publish pretty much anything he wants. It's not as if the government was writing articles about Russia and ordering the press to publish them.

Funny how "the west" (i.e., the USA) had no problem with financing and supporting Yeltsin several manipulations of russian elections, not even Putin's first, and now cries wolf...

 

[Oruc]

I hope our Russian friends eagerly await their No-Fly Zone, NATO's arirforce will be helping ensure free and fair elections.