What's your opinion of the decision now?We did, we all seemed to think it was the obvious move but no other team did lol
What's your opinion of the decision now?We did, we all seemed to think it was the obvious move but no other team did lol
I think with 3 cities we weren't really maximising the benefits, we got hung up on the anarchy - I think a Shrine would probably have been better.What's your opinion of the decision now?
EP's and Wealth are given to new colonies?
Oh my!
Sounds like it is time for some testing.
August 2017:
I had been aware of EPs given to colonies, but here's the moment I got my first evil thoughts on the idea for EP replication:
It was all in the open forums. Discussed more than once. Not really a secret.
@Kaitzilla, remember you were there ? (from Aug 23rd 2017):
Doesn't look so good early on:I didn't really do much of the early game (before T42), but you guys amazed me at how fast you were taking cities. Way faster than I imagined. It will be interesting to see the difference in the progression of cities (not population or score). The graph just shows score. I think you guys rocked the early game.
Don't forget that we would have 3 spies in this scenario, since we would not be burning one for the golden age. It would, however, have been difficult to generate the base too much earlier, and using the extra would require an earlier army of spies and earlier Korea.And yes, use the GPro for the GAge and get the 2 artists+2 spies going earlier.
not if we just gave birth to 2 artist and 1 spy. When I said 2 ga + 2 spies, I meant as soon as we have 2 spies, not create 2 more.Don't forget that we would have 3 spies in this scenario,
The best we could have done was 175 AD without going back to the beginning and doing it all over again. We woulda had to do the point squeeze like you guys did, but we weren't up for it. We were locked into a cycle that took X amount of time to generate culture. The decision on our end date had to be made early. Somewhere in the early 40's.So do i believe we would have won in 200AD if aware of barbs,
We made good use out of it as an indestructible scout. It could also give vision on a city for AirStrikes. Then we used it for a Golden Age!Gspy would not have been settled, certainly agree
Shrine. My gut reaction is no. or even 'no way', but I suppose there may not be a better use for it. Other than golden age. Let me think out loud...
Trying to make it sound like a good idea....
If we average +5gpt over 100 turns, that's 500.
If religion auto spreads a few times, I suppose that has value.
wonder points
but build a Market? not likely.
Religion won't spread a lot if every city has religion, right?
looking back at the shrine decision. It was the wonder points that sold me. Otherwise, I was 'no way' on a shrine.
(Notice that I was using 100 turns as an estimate back on T0, but I was trying to make the shrine sound good.)
A mid-game golden age woulda been the right choice IMO.
You folks played a great game as usual and I felt you were probably ahead of us throughout. And you were. You keep beating us in the opening.Hiya,
yep it's true, i was bitter when we found out about those barb cities.
Did lots of micro for those win dates, first 100 or 125AD not sure which, then 200AD,
i was feeling bad about how much real life time i did put into a plan, that now actually worked against us as cities were abused too much with no way to bring that back.
My original "20 turns plan" started when Elite woke us up, saying we can win this much faster than we think.
That plan was for i think 100AD (would not have worked ofc).
If i know we aim for 200AD, or 225AD (aware of barb issue), my cities plan would have been much more "gentle".
We whipped very hard for especially Spies (for stationary) early, and also wonders.
And Great Peoples too, everything..we would not have needed Paci anymore 1t before golden age ends, and save so much gold ~~
They could have been much bigger, i dropped many food tiles for squeezing out EP and beakers.
Settlers could have been added, many possibilities to counter barbs imo.
So do i believe we would have won in 200AD if aware of barbs, and giving us those extra 4t, before abusing cities..
yep, 90%.
on your great game,
special cheers for Kaitzilla, i have become a big fan of your posts.
I think it's a question of acceleration. The Shrine gave us back-end quality but little front-end acceleration. Considering we knew very early we were going to have a boatload of good cities, I think the optimal decision would have been a Golden Age as soon as those cities were fairly useful. What PR did was even more early acceleration, as shown by bbp's statistics. Wow! But I'm thinking we might have sped that up by beelining HBR. I think those were the two key factors we missed. Speaking in terms of redoing from the start, of course.looking back at the shrine decision. It was the wonder points that sold me. Otherwise, I was 'no way' on a shrine.
(Notice that I was using 100 turns as an estimate back on T0, but I was trying to make the shrine sound good.)
A mid-game golden age woulda been the right choice IMO.
We pretty much caught up by T30. Couldn't the apparent lag be that we chose to go for HongKong (with galley) early?What PR did was even more early acceleration,
Dunno. I'm too old to remember three months back... I don't know when HAs would have been helpful but they're faster, excellent for whipping in this scenario. Just seem more powerful. And we knew that and had the cash to tech them while warring. We just didn't pull the trigger.We pretty much caught up by T30. Couldn't the apparent lag be that we chose to go for HongKong (with galley) early?
I am actually a bit surprised that we got that close. Like Fippy said, our wake-up was quite late. T50 workers were happily building cottages around capital and people were discussing whether to save fresh GSpy for infiltration or build SY. That's when I made a (very) rough estimation that all individual goals could be met in 20 turns, and Fippy went ahead and somehow managed to do all of them simultaneously in that time (had it not been for us missing the barb pop and not understanding capitulation rules correctly). Our early game must have been pretty strong. I wouldn't know, I wasn't around much to mess that part up. I think the settled priest might have helped a lot. We quickly had two armies wreaking havoc both north and south.The best we could have done was 175 AD without going back to the beginning and doing it all over again. We woulda had to do the point squeeze like you guys did, but we weren't up for it. We were locked into a cycle that took X amount of time to generate culture. The decision on our end date had to be made early. Somewhere in the early 40's.
Like several people have said, and I often preach: Knowing your end turn is so important to making plans. If we had known the game could be won before T70, we would have changed a lot. Like Elite wrote in your thread, settling the GSpy wouldn't have been done if you knew T70 was the target.
Actually, my testing found the opposite. Land Target had no effect in my tests. And then I found this in code:Looks like they got capitulation figured out.
Mean old Roosevelt will only talk peace in 2 turns, and England will indeed cap with a lot less power needed if Land Target is activated. (their testing seems to indicate this)
if (isAtWar(eTeam))
{
doLotsOfCalculations;
}
else
{
if (!GET_TEAM(eTeam).AI_isLandTarget(getID()))
{
iMasterPower /= 2;
}
}
This must be iVassalPowerModifier, which for Roosevelt is 0. I was looking at this a lot, and reading capitulation code, but couldn't figure out what this 0 means in practice. Where does 1.4 come from? I noticed this modifier corresponds to "Resists Capitulation" in Know Your Enemy, all Ai with 0 in XML says 4/10 in KYE.Should I look at the number in the latter and add that much to their average power demand? So requirement for Sitting Bull is that average power needs to be at least twice his power?fyi, 1.4 is just Churchill. Each AI has a different multiplier in the XML.
We teched HBR T52... Once we decided to win in 20 turns, it was the first thing we did. Early on it was all Swords with some Chariots, then Chokos added to the mix.What PR did was even more early acceleration, as shown by bbp's statistics. Wow! But I'm thinking we might have sped that up by beelining HBR. I think those were the two key factors we missed.