Shadow Game - Is this just a map *I* can not beat?

[Gumbolt]

Kill the Indians or you lose the game? Raze or capture his top 3 cities.

When you saw the Indians had spammed all those wonders they should of been your first target really.

 

[Gumbolt]

Installing Humankind. Not sure i will get into either.

Any beginners guide to civ 6?

 

[Tecumseh1]

Installing Humankind. Not sure i will get into either.

Any beginners guide to civ 6?

Yeah I'm meaning to play humankind as well. Kind of like the theme and maybe it's a game you can enjoy without warfare

Well from my little playing civ6 seems very basic and far less strategic than civ4 or civ5. I'm sure you could smash it soon.

Here's a cool video comparing civ5 to civ6

 

[Tecumseh1]

@Build2Much nice title change lol. Don't feel bad as I made similar threads in the past year and have improved a lot from advice in this forum.

Also @sampsa finds every map easy so don't let that discourage you

 

[Henrik75]

ill give it a go. have a bunch of isolation games in my channel you could also check out meanwhile.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Henrik, you need to adjust the difficulty to deity or it will be quite boring for you.

 

[Build2Much]

ill give it a go. have a bunch of isolation games in my channel you could also check out meanwhile.

If it keeps your interest and makes the cut I’ll be interested to see how you attack the map. Thanks for checking it out!

 

[Fippy]

Henrik, you need to adjust the difficulty to deity or it will be quite boring for you.

I really don't think it would be..
and that island looks brutal for deity barbs, i wouldn't look forward to that.

 

[Build2Much]

Well, I finally decided to meet my end.

Spoiler :

With max 20 turns until culture victory, United Nations forcing environmentalism, and Zara churning out at least 1 spaceship part per turn and a 80+ unit stack highlighted by 50ish mech infantry stationed in a captured Monty city on Gandhi’s borders it was futile, but had to at least invade. Took and razed one of Gandhi’s cities (but I went by land, so not even one of his culture cities) then had a bomb dropped on my stack. So that was that . When I retired it at least gave me Neville Chamberlain!

Thanks to all for the help / following the thread! Next time I will not let them get that big, I swear!

 

[Tecumseh1]

Sometimes you learn the most from losses I have posted a couple of isolation games to YT recently if you're interested. They are my favorite game type for sure. And I enjoy late game warfare.

 

[gavenkoa]

I tried this map and because it is isolation on a pretty rich island I thought about Apostolic Palace election victory.

The research order was concentrated on getting Theology early to secure Christianity & start building AP very early. Monotheism & nearby Monarchy together with GS's Golden Age unlocked +25% for building under religion. Also I squeezed Math to benefit from +30H chops. 4 cities supported research with low maintenance cost, 5th was founded in the pre-chopped forest rich area, with food sharing from the capital and +2 other food surpluses for fast growth.

But to my surprise one of the AI has Theocracy as a favorite religion, and it forced another vassal into Theocracy... So I can't spread religion. Also I didn't gift a tech / gold to one crazy AI on first contact to enable "open border", and later that AI was very upset with me...

As I understand to win under AP I need to spread religion to every AI. Am I correct?

Also I noticed first 2 or 3 elections I haven't been provided with decision voting, what is the mechanic here? Is it enough to spread religion or should force them to convert to have useful voting decisions? One voting was about stopping trade with infidel, I'd love to have a war with infidel voting! They will slow down and I will be in safety on my island alone ))

I can bribe one AI to switch from Theocracy, one will stay with beloved Theocracy and one is with closed borders. Is it losing position for AP victory?

PS I've never built AP before nor tried AP/UN victory.

 

[gavenkoa]

Additional question is about founding extra cities on remote islands - why should I do?

It is after Astro on this map, and the initial island is pretty big, so the only reason I see is to claim some resources I don't have via trade or in the mainland. Foreign trade routes are enough for our 2-3 connections (Currency + coastal Cothon), IDK when AIs switch to mercantilism...

 

[Gumbolt]

Additional question is about founding extra cities on remote islands - why should I do?

It is after Astro on this map, and the initial island is pretty big, so the only reason I see is to claim some resources I don't have via trade or in the mainland. Foreign trade routes are enough for our 2-3 connections (Currency + coastal Cothon), IDK when AIs switch to mercantilism...

Can we see a save?

 

[AcaMetis]

But to my surprise one of the AI has Theocracy as a favorite religion, and it forced another vassal into Theocracy... So I can't spread religion.

You can gift a missionary unit to AIs, and they'll use it to spread religion to their cities even if they're running Theocracy. No, I don't know why they're able to do this, but they can. It's generally preferred to gift missionary units to AIs anyway because it gets them off of your small missionary unit limit faster, letting you build another one more quickly, and if not that AIs also don't have a chance to fail spreading a religion IIRC.

As I understand to win under AP I need to spread religion to every AI. Am I correct?

Every player on the board needs to have at least one city with the AP religion, yes. Doesn't matter if it's a size one iceball on another continent from an otherwise continent-sprawling collection of metropolis after metropolis, any city will do.

Also I noticed first 2 or 3 elections I haven't been provided with decision voting, what is the mechanic here?

The amount of votes an AI gets is proportional to the amount of population they control which has the AP's religion. A size 1 iceball with the religion contributes little, a size 20 metropolis with the religion contributes a lot, a size 20 metropolis without the religion gets told by the iceball that a foreign religious figure told them all to jump and by divine command their only response is asking how high. If a civ is running the AP religion their vote pool is also doubled.

For this sort of AP cheese you want to spread the AP religion to all of your cities, and spread it as little as possible to everyone else. You do need at least one other AI to vote for you, you can't vote yourself the victory even if you have enough votes on paper, but I don't believe it matters whether this other AI meaningfully contributes to the voting pool. Just that they voted for you.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Additional question is about founding extra cities on remote islands - why should I do?

I would stick with 12 cities maximum before the first attack so that civics can be switched in one turn.

I don't think there's going to be 36 foreign cities to trade with. One or two players will stay in mercantilism.

 

[gavenkoa]

Can we see a save?

T164, AD-1040, just discovered Liberalism and will select Astronomy. The save is from original BtS (with BUG in CustomAssets & altered BULL DLL). Later I won Economics' GM and will win GS from Physics (T180, AD-1200). I feel I played quite bad from Astronomy - I thought AP victory is in a near future but Theocracy appeared as an obstacle...

But I'd like to replay from pre-Liberalism/Astronomy - to build enough settlers / workers / missionaries to send to new islands. Because I did preparation in advance only for Optics...

I remember 2 overseas cities have almost invisible overseas maintenance cost. So I plan to send 3 settlers mainly to claim resources to push happy/health limits & trade them for money.

Should I found & grant independence for new nations? I know AI without a worker develops very slowly... Does investment make sense? For AP victory I need also to build a missionary besides a probable worker...

 

[gavenkoa]

You can gift a missionary unit to AIs, and they'll use it to spread religion to their cities even if they're running Theocracy. No, I don't know why they're able to do this, but they can

Great!

It's generally preferred to gift missionary units to AIs anyway because it gets them off of your small missionary unit limit faster, letting you build another one more quickly

Good point! I hesitated to gift a missionary because initially I used them as scouts. I saw Lain used GS for scouting, but in my case with 1unit Caravel I need to send missionaries first.

Lain also pre-built Trireme for upgrade to Caravel (50G). In his game he failfold, so had massive gold surplus:

Post in thread 'Noble's Club 208: De Gaulle of France'

Jan 26, 2025

Question:

Spoiler :

So I just noticed none of the AIs I've met so far have Aesthetics. I'm considering a small detour to Aesth-Lit for the GL and the NE. Worth it or better to just deficit research to Astro right now?

GLH is usually worth it with low happy cap and/or low food. We don't have happiness issues here (and it will get better after astronomy). There is pretty low food but you generally want the scientists earlier so you can bulb optics/astro or get an earlier academy. There is actually a Lain video where he plays this map. He manages to get GLH + NE and still get a very...

• Tecumseh1

• 

I contacted AIs 2T later delaying on slavery whip. Missionaries are pre-built. Actually upgrading makes a naval unit immobile, so delay is only in 1T but you could move Trireme to a proper location to shorten travel path (to save few turns) though upgrade is only possible inside empire's culture.

Every player on the board needs to have at least one city with the AP religion, yes

For this sort of AP cheese you want to spread the AP religion to all of your cities, and spread it as little as possible to everyone else.

So I over spent missionaries, because I didn't understand game rules. Below are details:

You do need at least one other AI to vote for you, you can't vote yourself the victory even if you have enough votes on paper

I though I need to convert one AI to my AP religion, but later I found Gandhi in Free Religion, so I don't have religion penalty and he votes for me.

Can I trick game rules by granting independence to a nation on some island? It starts loyal to me and I can supply religion beforehand.

 

[gavenkoa]

I would stick with 12 cities maximum before the first attack so that civics can be switched in one turn.

I don't think there's going to be 36 foreign cities to trade with. One or two players will stay in mercantilism.

Understand.

So 3 overseas cities is must have. The overseas maintenance cost is skyrocketing after 2nd city I remember...

 

[AcaMetis]

Can I trick game rules by granting independence to a nation on some island? It starts loyal to me and I can supply religion beforehand.

If there's another landmass you can plant at least three cities with religion pre-spread, to grant it independence as a vassal colony, I don't see why that wouldn't work. Though I can't say I ever tested it either.

 

[Gumbolt]

I think you will struggle AP wise. Aztecs won't talk to you so no way to gift them a city. Unless they capture a Christian city?

You would need to get Indians and other Ai closer to friendly. Trading resources helps. Maybe joint wars? Open borders after 50 turns? Gifting a lot of techs can help too. Or liberating cities. Shared civic is a great way to get +4-5 diplo points.

How do you fix a furious Monty? Trading with worst enemies was a mistake. He may eventually talk to you. Open borders would only happen if you were in a shared war with another AI. Assuming he will talk to you after that?

I think Indians and Ethiopians have spread religion too much. Ideally you want the AI with 1 city that has your religion or one AI outside your religion who can win you the votes.