Single Player bugs and crashes v35 plus (SVN) - After the 18th of August 2014

[BlueGenie]

Yes, just the science penalty from education but you also need to take into consideration the largest contributor to science in the Prehistory and Ancient, until Writing, Elder's Council with +25%, and that bonus is not only being removed but a lot more than that by these -education buildings.

I am all for the Education property being more difficult to get in the early stages of the game but I am not really understanding the negative values in Education, basically I fail to see that education can be any less than 0% and going into the negative and getting -science buildings, aka under 0%, does feel counterintuitive.

I am supplying the autosave in which my Pre-Tribalism city (grown to 7 through Captive -Civilian mostly) has managed to, with the reduction in Education, go to:
-25% commerce
-25% science
-9 science beakers

This has taken my civilization from 104/turn pre-education reduction to 52/turn post-education reduction, and education is still dropping rapidly.

Again I am all for reducing the effect of Education in the early game which in the Rising Sun save, in http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13581488&postcount=515, being
+20% commerce
+20% science
+6 science beakers
but not happy with reducing it to ashes.


Speaking of unhappy: New Crime (Shoplifting) with Barter, and in my game -23/turn, pre-Tribalism?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I thought that the idea of the education property was to represent the difficulty in maintaining your level of technology. This should not be hard but not too hard up until the classical era or maybe specialization. After which it grows by both tech and population.

I'll have to look at my current game and see how the education property is going as I built most myths in one city.

 

[danielpace13]

When I try playing any gigantic map I get a memory failure sign or the game closes to the Desktop. I'm using revision: 8128. I can play on standard maps. I havn't try any map bigger than standard, besides gigantic. I have logs from my last crash. I am new to this Website, so I need help fixing it. Can someone help me?

 

[Arakhor]

This mod is already so big, I would not advise playing anything more than Large (or Huge, at a push). Gigantic is seriously overdoing it.

 

[danielpace13]

This mod is already so big, I would not advise playing anything more than Large (or Huge, at a push). Gigantic is seriously overdoing it.

I want to play a big Earth map, but C2C's Earth maps are either standard or gigantic.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yes, just the science penalty from education but you also need to take into consideration the largest contributor to science in the Prehistory and Ancient, until Writing, Elder's Council with +25%, and that bonus is not only being removed but a lot more than that by these -education buildings.

I am all for the Education property being more difficult to get in the early stages of the game but I am not really understanding the negative values in Education, basically I fail to see that education can be any less than 0% and going into the negative and getting -science buildings, aka under 0%, does feel counterintuitive.

I am supplying the autosave in which my Pre-Tribalism city (grown to 7 through Captive -Civilian mostly) has managed to, with the reduction in Education, go to:
-25% commerce
-25% science
-9 science beakers

This has taken my civilization from 104/turn pre-education reduction to 52/turn post-education reduction, and education is still dropping rapidly.

Again I am all for reducing the effect of Education in the early game which in the Rising Sun save, in http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13581488&postcount=515, being
+20% commerce
+20% science
+6 science beakers
but not happy with reducing it to ashes.


Speaking of unhappy: New Crime (Shoplifting) with Barter, and in my game -23/turn, pre-Tribalism?

The range of education was always intended to span from -1000 to 1000 (roughly). This is how properties work really. One thing to note is that the more a property gets away from 0 the more drag there is attempting to pull it back to 0, so it's tough to get education down to the factor of -10 and up to the factor of 10 no matter how well or poorly the nation is maintained.

I'm not going to pretend that we won't likely need some more balance factors. Perhaps some of the building education sources need to be stronger too. And I was also thinking we might want some new buildings for some supplementary education, beyond some of the plans DH has proposed which I like too. I thought of one earlier today, Community Discussion Forums - representing an established custom of people in the community coming together daily to discuss their experiences and share ideas. Fireside chats (pre-fire) basically. So some new simple buildings could improve things in the early stage and I'm sure the rest of the stages of the game could use some further help as well. (and keep in mind that storytellers stationed in the city can already have an impact much like healers and law enforcement do on disease and crime... not a huge impact mind you but perhaps enough to fairly easily help negate the new penalties.)

EDIT IN: Note: My wife has a severe problem with education being primarily reliant on animals - she feels its just another way she gets (or can get) screwed since she often ends up in the southern hemisphere and feels she doesn't get nearly enough access to animals there. I agree that we do need more focus on other sources.

But it should be possible, if education is neglected, to end up falling to -1000 education... that's how the system was designed. So since it has an impressive effect with such small penalty per population I think we've got a good platform on which to continue to balance from here. Previously we had nothing that would reduce the education value except for that drag back to 0 so this is a big step in the right direction, painful as it may be to existing games.

My apologies for not making this adjustment more public than numerous comments over the last few months about how it would eventually be done and a mention on the SVN thread when implemented. I'm also sorry that it will so greatly impact games in progress that are unprepared to face this drag.

I thought that the idea of the education property was to represent the difficulty in maintaining your level of technology. This should not be hard but not too hard up until the classical era or maybe specialization. After which it grows by both tech and population.

I'll have to look at my current game and see how the education property is going as I built most myths in one city.

Yes and no... education as a property represents the difference between the knowledge of the most learned men in the community who understand the cutting edge of the civilization's technologies and the understanding of that knowledge by the common person. I suppose by default it then also means how difficult it is to maintain and make further progress in technology... but it also impacts the activities of all trades as the education level of the common citizen has a large influence on the overall effectiveness of the community as a whole.

When I try playing any gigantic map I get a memory failure sign or the game closes to the Desktop. I'm using revision: 8128. I can play on standard maps. I havn't try any map bigger than standard, besides gigantic. I have logs from my last crash. I am new to this Website, so I need help fixing it. Can someone help me?

It's sounding like you're computer specs aren't up to it. Assuming you are on less than Windows 7, the 3GB switch could help. Search for '3GB Switch' on the forum here and you'll quickly find the page that will step you through resolution.

 

[danielpace13]

I just thought of something. I love Caveman 2 Cosmos for its options like religions and civics. I love RFC Dawn of Civilization for its historical accuracy. Have you thought about making C2C maps that start in different time periods in history?

 

[danielpace13]

It's sounding like you're computer specs aren't up to it. Assuming you are on less than Windows 7, the 3GB switch could help. Search for '3GB Switch' on the forum here and you'll quickly find the page that will step you through resolution.

My computer specs
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Solo CPU U3500 @ 1.40GHz
Mobile Intel(R) 4 Series Express Chipset Family
2.1 GB
Windows 7 Professional Edition 32-bit

 

[Thunderbrd]

I just thought of something. I love Caveman 2 Cosmos for its options like religions and civics. I love RFC Dawn of Civilization for its historical accuracy. Have you thought about making C2C maps that start in different time periods in history?

We aren't really the scenario designers but we've had people do them and it's appreciated when they do.

My computer specs
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Solo CPU U3500 @ 1.40GHz
Mobile Intel(R) 4 Series Express Chipset Family
2.1 GB
Windows 7 Professional Edition 32-bit

Yeah, you could probably use the 3GB switch on that system. Should be able to handle quite a bit but larger than Huge would be tough. I'd love it if someone did a Huge Earth Map with the quality of the GEM that was done.

 

[danielpace13]

I would make the maps for you if my laptop could handle it.

 

[danielpace13]

I don't know about the 3GB Switch. I read how to do it, but I am worried that I will mess up my system. Could I do that by mistake?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

IIRC the first building to provide education other than the animals is the Gramaticus and that is in the ancient era.

EDIT IN: Note: My wife has a severe problem with education being primarily reliant on animals - she feels its just another way she gets (or can get) screwed since she often ends up in the southern hemisphere and feels she doesn't get nearly enough access to animals there. I agree that we do need more focus on other sources.

The southern hemisphere on Earth has a lot less land mass so the conversion to C2C has been a bit of a problem in the animal ranges. I think we do have enough now (when we get the ones done that are still on my list) but I would like to get some more of the terror birds in so that there is something distinct about the southern hemisphere. I probably should make lemurs an African animal rather than having it severely limited in location as it is now.

I don't know about the 3GB Switch. I read how to do it, but I am worried that I will mess up my system. Could I do that by mistake?

If you do it as documented with the question asking which you want it should be fine. It is a standard Windows thing. I did it with the question but got fed up and eventually did the switch by default. I never had any problems with any programs or games.

 

[danielpace13]

If you do it as documented with the question asking which you want it should be fine. It is a standard Windows thing. I did it with the question but got fed up and eventually did the switch by default. I never had any problems with any programs or games.

I follow the directions, but now I am wondering how I am suppose to check if it worked.

 

[Thunderbrd]

IIRC the first building to provide education other than the animals is the Gramaticus and that is in the ancient era.

So... we don't have education from Knowledge Inheritance and other early research buildings? This could be a REALLY strong way to enhance the need for some of those culture producing buildings too - you've opened my eyes to the idea that stories, songs and dance and other forms of culture could be considered ways that ideas and concepts can be transmitted to the common folk so I'd be all for adding some education to those buildings too. So long as we keep the amount of education from those sources to very small numbers (like 1) we should be fine. Of course, more research based buildings should perhaps have a bit more education to offer.

The southern hemisphere on Earth has a lot less land mass so the conversion to C2C has been a bit of a problem in the animal ranges. I think we do have enough now (when we get the ones done that are still on my list) but I would like to get some more of the terror birds in so that there is something distinct about the southern hemisphere. I probably should make lemurs an African animal rather than having it severely limited in location as it is now.

Ah... so we're having trouble because we're not stretching the territories of these animals as if the map can have any shape landmass eh? Yeah, that would be problematic. I would suggest we get over trying to be SO specific until or unless we can start defining them by biomes and assigning biomes to areas and stuff we discussed with PrimemOver a while back. In short, about the Lemurs for example, I agree... and would suggest to go further still.

I follow the directions, but now I am wondering how I am suppose to check if it worked.

Play!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Ah... so we're having trouble because we're not stretching the territories of these animals as if the map can have any shape landmass eh? Yeah, that would be problematic. I would suggest we get over trying to be SO specific until or unless we can start defining them by biomes and assigning biomes to areas and stuff we discussed with PrimemOver a while back. In short, about the Lemurs for example, I agree... and would suggest to go further still.

Most Southern Hemisphere animals have been expanded down, East-West isn't the problem. We also have the Arctic Fox available in the south for the America and Africa segment. Making sure of this expansion is part of my review.

 

[Toffer90]

Subdued animals no longer has a sleep function (Hotkey: "F"), very annoying to "sentry them every time something walks by them. SVN 8129

 

[Thunderbrd]

Subdued animals no longer has a sleep function (Hotkey: "F"), very annoying to "sentry them every time something walks by them. SVN 8129

I know what's going on with this but my wife's confusion (and annoyance) regarding the matter has also shown me that I will need to change this. I was hoping the solution to this problem for players would be obvious but apparently it is not. It followed the concept that 'if you can do something better than go to sleep why should sleep be an option?'. Apparently many players won't care and just want sleep as an option even if the unit can gain benefit from 'going to sleep' in an improved manner. I'd not given enough consideration to the simplicity of habit here... sorry.

I'll be looking to revert this particular issue later today.

 

[Toffer90]

I know what's going on with this but my wife's confusion (and annoyance) regarding the matter has also shown me that I will need to change this. I was hoping the solution to this problem for players would be obvious but apparently it is not. It followed the concept that 'if you can do something better than go to sleep why should sleep be an option?'. Apparently many players won't care and just want sleep as an option even if the unit can gain benefit from 'going to sleep' in an improved manner. I'd not given enough consideration to the simplicity of habit here... sorry.

I'll be looking to revert this particular issue later today.

Is the "prepare escape" the better alternative here? I haven't tried it yet so don't know how it works, though I suppose it's like fortify. Would be nice if prepare escape could have the hotkey "F" if no sleep or fortify is available though I guess it will conflict for units that does have forify.

"F" is for me, and probably many others, the canon button I push when I want to tell the unit: "Oh go bother someone else, and don't return until called for (strict voice)"; if you know what I mean.
Imagine my surprise when the unit ignored my outburst and just looked strangely back at me.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Is the "prepare escape" the better alternative here? I haven't tried it yet so don't know how it works, though I suppose it's like fortify. Would be nice if prepare escape could have the hotkey "F" if no sleep or fortify is available though I guess it will conflict for units that does have forify.

"F" is for me, and probably many others, the canon button I push when I want to tell the unit: "Oh go bother someone else, and don't return until called for (strict voice)"; if you know what I mean.
Imagine my surprise when the unit ignored my outburst and just looked strangely back at me.

Yes... that and Establish Base of Operations. And I had some trouble with overlapping hokey conflicts indeed and I suppose since I never use hotkeys myself and I was afraid of causing other conflicts there I didn't give that enough due consideration. My apologies. Still... F works for both fortify AND sleep? I'll have to dig a bit more to see what really happens with a hotkey conflict. I had thought that was the root of a problem I had when I first tested but perhaps it was another solution I found that fixed it...

 

[Toffer90]

Still... F works for both fortify AND sleep?

Indeed it does, but no unit has ever needed to have both functions available at once as one is redundant alongside the other.

Perhaps the easiest would be to let subdued animals regain their ability to "Fortify". That way the hotkey "F" would retain it's significance without having the now redundant "sleep" mission.
It would of course be elegant if you found a way to make the hotkey assignments for these missions to be conditionals upon the other missions availability for the particular unit type.