Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[Thunderbrd]

Doesn't work that way. If a missionary is sent to a city to spread a religion then no other automated missionary of any religion will head to that city until that missionary has done its thing or died on the way. Same with Executives. Having them on automate in a city means that I can generate enough of the missionaries of all the religions in the knowledge that they will eventually get their chance to spread their religion.

I am finding this new awake thing to be a real pain. I have built 20 each of two religions and set them to automate knowing that I have 20 cities that both religions need to be spread to. Now I have one on the way to each city and every turn I now have to automate the 20 missionaries that did not go just in case some of the ones spreading have done their thing. It is even worse because the automated units move after the ones now activated ask for orders so the spread is delayed by a turn more than it used to.

Regardless, it helps them to reevaluate their moves every round based on what may or may not be new factors. However, I do realize this is probably a pain for human players. I'll have to program a different method to take place for automated units as opposed to an AI unit. Either that or I simply revert their movement commands to the old method for the most part.

There's also still something very wrong with hunting AI. I just can't seem to zero in on what it could exactly be. Some things witnessed there earlier tonight.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Regardless, it helps them to reevaluate their moves every round based on what may or may not be new factors. However, I do realize this is probably a pain for human players. I'll have to program a different method to take place for automated units as opposed to an AI unit. Either that or I simply revert their movement commands to the old method for the most part.

There's also still something very wrong with hunting AI. I just can't seem to zero in on what it could exactly be. Some things witnessed there earlier tonight.

Having a different method for the player would be a good thing, especially if we can access it from Python to give new actions to units eg Great Prophet new action "Go to Holy City and Build Shrine". The other problem with the automate for missionaries and execs is that it does not consider danger along the way, if it did that then the method would be very useful for automating subdued animals and so on.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Btw Maintenance cost is not just maintaining what ever. It includes the costs associated with using and expanding the facility to cope with population.

For graveyards and the like it is not just looking after the grounds, it includes the cost of the ceremonies involved with burials, including offerings at the time of burial and later. It also includes extending the land when it gets full.

For Libraries it is similar, as the maintenance is not just of the building but of the contents also as books need to be copied as they wear out and new books bought as more are written.​

 

[tmv]

books need to be copied

Perhaps the maintenance should be reduced with Printing Press?

 

[Thunderbrd]

The other problem with the automate for missionaries and execs is that it does not consider danger along the way,

That's what this change is in part attempting to accomplish. If there is known dangers along the way the unit should wait and call for an escort before proceeding. It's checking this each round it moves and that may be a little problematic based on how you explained the existing structure works (which I didn't read to that depth) where it ensures only one missionary is ever headed towards a target city and this stopping to reconsider could cause another missionary to get set on another round to head for the city the missionary was originally headed for. It explains some confusing behavior I saw earlier. I think it should probably just be a case where it is instructed to go the whole way but if the path is fraught with known peril than order up an escort first.

Btw Maintenance cost is not just maintaining what ever. It includes the costs associated with using and expanding the facility to cope with population.

For graveyards and the like it is not just looking after the grounds, it includes the cost of the ceremonies involved with burials, including offerings at the time of burial and later. It also includes extending the land when it gets full.

For Libraries it is similar, as the maintenance is not just of the building but of the contents also as books need to be copied as they wear out and new books bought as more are written.

Most of the costs of ceremonies at a graveyard are paid for by the 'customers' and not the state. Extending the land would be infrequent. I don't buy the cost being more than 1 gold. A wall, by comparison, or roads, should cost 100 times the upkeep of a graveyard, which is a relatively costless (to the state) factor. Library costs seem appropriate to me since they do require an ongoing investment by the state to fund and it's not an insignificant investment, particularly since they usually do not ask for any direct money from subscribers to their services, except for compensation for subscriber fault losses.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I am finding this new awake thing to be a real pain. I have built 20 each of two religions and set them to automate knowing that I have 20 cities that both religions need to be spread to. Now I have one on the way to each city and every turn I now have to automate the 20 missionaries that did not go just in case some of the ones spreading have done their thing. It is even worse because the automated units move after the ones now activated ask for orders so the spread is delayed by a turn more than it used to.

So after an exhaustive review of my own changes lately, I see I've done nothing to adjust or alter the manner in which missionaries and corporate executives operate. So this is quite strange. I can see how it was setup to work like this back in 09, where it only goes as far as one move before re-evaluating. But I didn't manipulate it at all so I'm really confused here.

I can probably make it work the way you're advocating with some fair ease...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There is a unit option "Sleep until a hostile land/sea unit comes in range". It is no longer working as the unit is waking up every turn. Is this part of the change you did for AI units re-evaluating every turn? If so we either need to turn it off for the player or get rid of this action button.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There is a unit option "Sleep until a hostile land/sea unit comes in range". It is no longer working as the unit is waking up every turn. Is this part of the change you did for AI units re-evaluating every turn? If so we either need to turn it off for the player or get rid of this action button.

No. nothing to do with it. However, I've noticed since AND that the sentry (sleep until hostile unit comes in range) and the option you indicate are given help text the opposite to what they mean in comparison to the other. AKA, I think it's just a matter of swapping the button art and tooltip references to fix it.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

But they are not staying asleep, they wake up even when there are no hostile units near by.

 

[Noriad2]

Most of the costs of ceremonies at a graveyard are paid for by the 'customers' and not the state. Extending the land would be infrequent. I don't buy the cost being more than 1 gold. A wall, by comparison, or roads, should cost 100 times the upkeep of a graveyard, which is a relatively costless (to the state) factor. Library costs seem appropriate to me since they do require an ongoing investment by the state to fund and it's not an insignificant investment, particularly since they usually do not ask for any direct money from subscribers to their services, except for compensation for subscriber fault losses.

Civ 4 has always been very vague about whether you only play the "government" or the whole civ (including the commercial sector and the consumers). Some costs/benefits are only for the goverment, some costs/benefits are for the civilian sector, and some are for both. Which means in practice that there can be several opinions on such matters which are both different and logical at the same time.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Civ 4 has always been very vague about whether you only play the "government" or the whole civ (including the commercial sector and the consumers). Some costs/benefits are only for the goverment, some costs/benefits are for the civilian sector, and some are for both. Which means in practice that there can be several opinions on such matters which are both different and logical at the same time.

Civ IV has been, yes. But we've been striving in C2C not to be so vague. Upkeep (Gold -) is the cost to the government. Gold + is the taxation the government gets to collect from the private operations of a building. It would even be nice to eventually have 2 build queues, one for the state that the player chooses and one for the private sector that the game chooses based on more human basal desires.

 

[strategyonly]

Police Cat, on SM, cant SM this unit?? Could SM the smaller cat unit??

 

[JosEPh_II]

Police Cat, on SM, cant SM this unit?? Could SM the smaller cat unit??

T-brd made a post that basically says the LE Units don't/can't use SM. I just can't find it atm. So no, Police Cat can't split or merge when using SM Option for a game.

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

T-brd made a post that basically says the LE Units don't/can't use SM. I just can't find it atm. So no, Police Cat can't split or merge when using SM Option for a game.

JosEPh

then maybe we should not upgrade the Big Cats to Police units , since i have never seen any anyways?? Just to something else, i guess?????

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

So what happens with canine units. The Big Cats are mostly a variation on the dogs anyway. Dogs do upgrade to Police Dogs.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I believe if Canines and Felines can merge and split then it's an oversight/bug. Neither should be able to but we've gotta be careful with that because wild animal ones should be able to... I'l have to figure out how to group them properly for non-merging/splitting.

 

[Thunderbrd]

then maybe we should not upgrade the Big Cats to Police units , since i have never seen any anyways?? Just to something else, i guess?????

This is questionable indeed but it was done when they were invented by Hydro as a simple parallel to the canines. I should probably make them more of a criminal unit than a law unit or something but I didn't want to bother with rethinking all that just yet.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

BtW it was not Hydro but a non-modder that came up with the idea and outline. I put the basic XML out there and Hydro and others made it work better.

 

[strategyonly]

So what happens with canine units. The Big Cats are mostly a variation on the dogs anyway.

I believe if Canines and Felines can merge and split then it's an oversight/bug. Neither should be able to but we've gotta be careful with that because wild animal ones should be able to... I'l have to figure out how to group them properly for non-merging/splitting.

This is questionable indeed but it was done when they were invented by Hydro as a simple parallel to the canines. I should probably make them more of a criminal unit than a law unit or something but I didn't want to bother with rethinking all that just yet.

Well i like that i can SM the cats and dogs, because the way i see it, there are all kinds of cats and dogs out there meaning size wise, ie: Poodles/terriers/ and then Dobermans etc . . kittens/house cats/panthers etc . . it would really make me do "another" change in huge strategy if u take this away, the way it is right now, i can see Police dogs, because there actually are some of those and in different sizes also . .but then again there are Hunting dogs, and then again wolf's . . so upgading does make sense , IMPO, i just think we need to come up with another way to upgrade dogs and cats before and then after Police units,its ok if it takes quite awhile as TB sugggested, its really not a high level item, and again should be on the back burner. just thinking out loud is all . . .

 

[Toffer90]

Well i like that i can SM the cats and dogs, because the way i see it, there are all kinds of cats and dogs out there meaning size wise, ie: Poodles/terriers/ and then Dobermans etc . . kittens/house cats/panthers etc . . it would really make me do "another" change in huge strategy if u take this away, the way it is right now, i can see Police dogs, because there actually are some of those and in different sizes also . .but then again there are Hunting dogs, and then again wolf's . . so upgading does make sense , IMPO, i just think we need to come up with another way to upgrade dogs and cats before and then after Police units,its ok if it takes quite awhile as TB sugggested, its really not a high level item, and again should be on the back burner. just thinking out loud is all . . .

Merging and splitting units is all about the amount of individuals in that unit, not the sizes of each individual. ^^