Something you should know about pizza delivery

[Terxpahseyton]

I think this whole service-sector-development is the entirely wrong road to take.
I think we as society should focus on the material and service conditions the average comfortable life actually needs (quality food, quality housing, furniture, electronics, health care, means of transportation, recreational gadgets [which overlaps with electronics, of course]) and focus on aligning those with a work life which is experienced as less of a burden (fewer hours / less stress).
Once the workforce accomplishes such an alignment and we still have too many people needing a job we could worry about the expansion of services.
All that this in principle would require would be the endorsement of a social consensus on how the economy should serve the people. Instead, people serve the economy and if you don't play the game, your nation gets cut off from international trade, most notably international raw materials trade.
It all has a sense of tragic comedy if you think about it. At least it does to me.
Already good ol' Ricardo worried that in the present way of doing things the automation of production would have you left with people which would need to do some kind of busy work. He imagined this as people being house keepers. Society changed and found other busy work, but in principle he was right on the money.

tl/dr: Socialism ftw! Though perhaps the democratic kind, this time (Marxism-Leninism and its shrouded ideas had its chance)
Also - It seems I actually am a Socialist. Who knew.

 

[Commodore]

Because minimum wage laws allow businesses to incorporate expected tips into worker compensation. It's why gratuity-based professions such as pizza delivery and waiter/ress get so consistently shafted and waiter/resses get so chippy about their tips. Possible government solutions: prohibit businesses from incorporating expected tips into their payroll. Require a fixed gratuity to be automatically incorporated into a customer's bill, as it is in most of the rest of the world.

I think those in gratuity-based professions should be guaranteed at least minimum wage, but I disagree that gratuity should be built into the bill automatically. Doing that basically guarantees a tip for that person regardless of how good a job they did, and that kind of defeats the original purpose of tips. Tips were supposed to be something extra the customer gives the server for exceptional service.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Why not have a new point? Now it is something extra for people who probably can use it more than you do.

 

[Angst]

We are talking about a pizza delivery job not being a pathway to financial success and many of you appear to believe that it should be. If you make their pay $15 per hour, who is going to want to pay an extra $5 or $10 per pizza just for the delivery? For that price many would just drive to the place themselves or choose to eat something more affordable but less convenient.

This is not a brain surgeon, this is a job that can be performed well by a stoner high school dropout. There is no benefit to society to reward this type of unskilled position with great benefits. Sorry to be the dream crusher here but that is reality. As I heard when I was young - "There are two type of people in this world, people who don't care about your problems and people who are glad that you have them"

Table ipad type devices are already being put into restaurants like Applebees to replace waitresses, it won't be long until fast food places do the same. When I was in high school I had a great job pumping gas part time. Now it is only self serve gas stations, some without even the dude in the glass box. They only take credit cards at the pump, no people needed at all.

What is society going to do with all of the people who will be better replaced by robots? They won't be needed and will in fact be a huge drain on society.

I'm sorry dude but your rhethoric is way off. The guy's just asking for a salary that is sufficient for basic sustenance. Something that is perfectly accomplishable while having a healthy economy. See Scandinavia. The only somewhat functional argument you have is an idealist construction of laissez-faire morals. That's perfectly fine but applying morals with little care about context or consequence in the real world is a bad thing. So yeah, it's really not perfectly fine. That you were told stupid stuff when you were young should not legitimize your blindness towards institutional poverty as an adult. That doesn't show your toughness and awesomeness for making it through, it just shows you don't actually live in the real world, the rhethoric's claims aside; it shows that you learned nothing.

And no, that you had crappy jobs, even if you have one now; it does not suffice. For you still twist a perfectly valid problem about a too low salary into other people being spoiled. I don't see that as any kind of enlightenment. It just reads like you want to prove that you're tough yourself.

Also I don't like that you twist technological development into being a perfectly fine premise for "good" human suffering.

 

[Arwon]

We are talking about a pizza delivery job not being a pathway to financial success and many of you appear to believe that it should be. If you make their pay $15 per hour, who is going to want to pay an extra $5 or $10 per pizza just for the delivery? For that price many would just drive to the place themselves or choose to eat something more affordable but less convenient.

This is not a brain surgeon, this is a job that can be performed well by a stoner high school dropout. There is no benefit to society to reward this type of unskilled position with great benefits. Sorry to be the dream crusher here but that is reality. As I heard when I was young - "There are two type of people in this world, people who don't care about your problems and people who are glad that you have them"

Table ipad type devices are already being put into restaurants like Applebees to replace waitresses, it won't be long until fast food places do the same. When I was in high school I had a great job pumping gas part time. Now it is only self serve gas stations, some without even the dude in the glass box. They only take credit cards at the pump, no people needed at all.

What is society going to do with all of the people who will be better replaced by robots? They won't be needed and will in fact be a huge drain on society.

I bet you're a joy at parties.

 

[History_Buff]

Tipping etiquette in NL is so goddamn stressful.

I just remember trying to tip on our dinner bill the first night I was in Switzerland. Neither the waitress or the manager spoke much English (though what they did speak was a godsend), but when we tried to tip 20% (because corporate was footing the bill) they freaked out and started giving us all these free shots, presumably to balance that out.

 

[Cutlass]

We are talking about a pizza delivery job not being a pathway to financial success and many of you appear to believe that it should be. If you make their pay $15 per hour, who is going to want to pay an extra $5 or $10 per pizza just for the delivery? For that price many would just drive to the place themselves or choose to eat something more affordable but less convenient.

This is not a brain surgeon, this is a job that can be performed well by a stoner high school dropout. There is no benefit to society to reward this type of unskilled position with great benefits. Sorry to be the dream crusher here but that is reality. As I heard when I was young - "There are two type of people in this world, people who don't care about your problems and people who are glad that you have them"

Table ipad type devices are already being put into restaurants like Applebees to replace waitresses, it won't be long until fast food places do the same. When I was in high school I had a great job pumping gas part time. Now it is only self serve gas stations, some without even the dude in the glass box. They only take credit cards at the pump, no people needed at all.

What is society going to do with all of the people who will be better replaced by robots? They won't be needed and will in fact be a huge drain on society.

No. This is a job for someone who desperately needs a job. And they need a job because they need to live on their income.

 

[Light Cleric]

Yeah, I almost always tip decently(usually 20% unless the service was just horrible). A huge percentage of the service problems actually originate from people in the kitchen, e.g. the order was written down properly but the kitchen messed it up. That being said, there is no way in helllllllll you are mandating that I tip bad servers a certain percentage.

As an aside, am I the only one who think it's obnoxious for there to be tip jars/a "tip" section on the receipt at carry-out places? I have no problem tipping delivery people and waiters, but I had to get in my car and drive to go get my pizza or whatever. All you did was turn around and get it out of the oven thing. There's not even a dine-in area so it's not like I took them away from customers. I don't get it.

No. This is a job for someone who desperately needs a job. And they need a job because they need to live on their income.

The economy sucks and I wouldn't belittle anyone for the job they take. That being said, am I to understand the OP has been at that job continuously since 2004, nearly a decade? That kind of job was never meant to be held that long. There's a difference between needing a gap job during tough times, as many people are doing right now, and holding it for 9 years.

 

[Dralix]

No. This is a job for someone who desperately needs a job. And they need a job because they need to live on their income.

Not all jobs are created equal. I certainly empathize if someone lost a high paying job and has to take a lower paying job because that's all they can find. But if that job doesn't pay enough for them to make ends meet, that doesn't make them a slave (to quote another poster).

People need to realize that not all jobs out there are intended to pay enough to support a husband and wife with 2.2 kids a dog, and a mortgage. Nor should they have to.

 

[sophie]

As an aside, am I the only one who think it's obnoxious for there to be tip jars/a "tip" section on the receipt at carry-out places? I have no problem tipping delivery people and waiters, but I had to get in my car and drive to go get my pizza or whatever. All you did was turn around and get it out of the oven thing. There's not even a dine-in area so it's not like I took them away from customers. I don't get it.

In culinary environments, tips are generally shared among all staff. The jar may go towards helping drivers who were not compensated due to your opting for carry out. Considering that usually with wait/delivery staff the actual hourly rate only covers the taxes-deducted, tips are pretty much the only way they can survive. I try to leave something in the tip jar, even I mostly do carry out.

 

[Cutlass]

Not all jobs are created equal. I certainly empathize if someone lost a high paying job and has to take a lower paying job because that's all they can find. But if that job doesn't pay enough for them to make ends meet, that doesn't make them a slave (to quote another poster).

People need to realize that not all jobs out there are intended to pay enough to support a husband and wife with 2.2 kids a dog, and a mortgage. Nor should they have to.

Why not? Work, in and of itself, is in fact intended to support the person working, and their family. Else-wise, why do it? The fact that employers can get away with not paying a living wage does not in any sense mean that the employee, or the work, do not deserve a living wage. The fact that there are not enough jobs that will pay a living wage for those who need and want and are willing to work those jobs means that the economy is out of balance, not that the jobs are not worth it.

 

[Takhisis]

The economy sucks and I wouldn't belittle anyone for the job they take. That being said, am I to understand the OP has been at that job continuously since 2004, nearly a decade? That kind of job was never meant to be held that long. There's a difference between needing a gap job during tough times, as many people are doing right now, and holding it for 9 years.

Maybe times have been tough for nine years.

 

[Dralix]

Why not? Work, in and of itself, is in fact intended to support the person working, and their family. Else-wise, why do it? The fact that employers can get away with not paying a living wage does not in any sense mean that the employee, or the work, do not deserve a living wage.

But what is a living wage? A living wage for a full time student working part time is different than the couple with the mortgage, dog, and 2.2 kids.

The fact of the matter is that some jobs will always pay more than others. Always have, always will. There's no reason to expect anything different.

Now maybe minimum wage should be raised, but there will always be lower paying jobs that, quite frankly, won't pay enough for certain families to make ends meet. I don't expect that to change until we evolve into a Star Trek society where currency no longer exists.

 

[Cutlass]

But what is a living wage? A living wage for a full time student working part time is different than the couple with the mortgage, dog, and 2.2 kids.

The fact of the matter is that some jobs will always pay more than others. Always have, always will. There's no reason to expect anything different.

Now maybe minimum wage should be raised, but there will always be lower paying jobs that, quite frankly, won't pay enough for certain families to make ends meet. I don't expect that to change until we evolve into a Star Trek society where currency no longer exists.

The problem with that argument is that in years past people could support themselves, and even a family, if not well, then at least better than base survival, with even crappier jobs than pizza delivery. What has changed is that the employers do not have to keep their employees out of dependency any longer, and so they don't. And so wages have fallen far behind the cost of living.

This has nothing to do with what the jobs are worth. This is only about what the employer can get away with paying, because of the desperation of the situation labor is in.

 

[Light Cleric]

In culinary environments, tips are generally shared among all staff. The jar may go towards helping drivers who were not compensated due to your opting for carry out. Considering that usually with wait/delivery staff the actual hourly rate only covers the taxes-deducted, tips are pretty much the only way they can survive. I try to leave something in the tip jar, even I mostly do carry out.

Something still feels off about tipping someone because I did their work for them. That feels like charity and I prefer to do mine through actual charities and volunteer work. If the wages are that low then the responsibility falls with the employer.

That is the limited role unions should play. Contrary to popular belief, unions from a conceptual point are not the issue, it's when unions begin to use thuggish tactics and their own intimidation like, you know, using violence, marching on people's private property and intimidating their families, twisting arms, blocking merit pay, keeping around incompetent employees, pressuring employees to unionize when they don't want to, things like that. I have a number of friends who aren't particularly happy with the way their union dues are used, either, but that's another story.

Maybe times have been tough for nine years.

This is what drives me nuts. No one except maybe whatshisface up there is saying it's easy, but tough times does not absolve one of all responsibilities. We can't ask what someone has done to try and move onto another job for an entire decade? It is not unsympathetic or heartless to ask this question and no one seems to be doing so. Do you think the legions of people who have found employment during these times found it easily? If someone has disabilities that prevents them from ever going beyond that, fine, we can help them, but I don't think that's the case here.

Again, if I'm understanding the OP correctly, this isn't someone who lost their job during the recession, they've held it since long before then. People have lost, found, lost, and again found employment many times during that period.

 

[Dralix]

The problem with that argument is that in years past people could support themselves, and even a family, if not well, then at least better than base survival, with even crappier jobs than pizza delivery. What has changed is that the employers do not have to keep their employees out of dependency any longer, and so they don't. And so wages have fallen far behind the cost of living.

But that's not all that's changed. There are other reasons why a certain unskilled job doesn't pay enough to support a family other than employers just wanting to screw people over.

Something still feels off about tipping someone because I did their work for them.

While I do agree that tip jars are popping up in too many places, I don't fully agree that you're tipping for doing their work for them. You could make the argument that they cooked for you, and so you're giving a gratuity for that. Still though, that argument could be extended to almost anything, so where do you draw the line? Personally, when I pick up my own order, I almost never use the carside thing, and sometimes I tip, sometimes I don't. I used to never tip, now it's on a case by case basis. I don't tip as much as I would if I dined in though.

 

[dutchfire]

Tipping etiquette in NL is so goddamn stressful.

At least here, if you tip too little, the waiter will only be angry, not starving.

 

[JohannaK]

What if you don't tip? I never tip.

 

[CavLancer]

Eat the pizza! Unemployment pays more.

 

[choxorn]

This thread makes me happy that the state I live in is one of the most labor-friendly in America and has a $9.19 (soon to be $9.32) minimum wage.