State Secession

[Farm Boy]

It's not actually that useful. You wind up having the drive through states getting dinged for infrastructure expenses with low population density when that infrastructure benefits multiple states.

 

[Crezth]

I don't see your point. I'd think that the infrastructure benefits multiple states would be the point of interest here.

 

[bhsup]

As an example of what Farm Boy meant, Crezth, I give you Nebraska. If they seceded, why should they be saddled with the entire cost of the portion of I-80 going through Nebraska? That is THE major northern line for the transportation of goods between east and west. Other States benefit from it far more than Nebraska does. Ditto Iowa.

 

[Truronian]

As an example of what Farm Boy meant, Crezth, I give you Nebraska. If they seceded, why should they be saddled with the entire cost of the portion of I-80 going through Nebraska? That is THE major northern line for the transportation of goods between east and west. Other States benefit from it far more than Nebraska does. Ditto Iowa.

Presumably if they were an independent nation then they'd be able to negotiate a toll or fee for using what would now be their railway to offset the cost.

 

[Dachs]

Presumably if they were an independent nation then they'd be able to negotiate a toll or fee for using what would now be their railway to offset the cost.

Highway, not railway. And it's not a turnpike.

 

[Leoreth]

As an example of what Farm Boy meant, Crezth, I give you Nebraska. If they seceded, why should they be saddled with the entire cost of the portion of I-80 going through Nebraska? That is THE major northern line for the transportation of goods between east and west. Other States benefit from it far more than Nebraska does. Ditto Iowa.

You're making a very good case for a federation here.

 

[bhsup]

Heh, yeah At this point in time I really cannot see any State justifying secession. It's just silliness. That said, I support their right to do so.

 

[Crezth]

As an example of what Farm Boy meant, Crezth, I give you Nebraska. If they seceded, why should they be saddled with the entire cost of the portion of I-80 going through Nebraska? That is THE major northern line for the transportation of goods between east and west. Other States benefit from it far more than Nebraska does. Ditto Iowa.

They shouldn't, not exactly. But Leoreth beat me to the punch:

You're making a very good case for a federation here.

But speaking so far as hard costs and secession go, they still have hard physical infrastructure in land that they are now saying is theirs' and theirs' alone. They have, in a sense, stolen that infrastructure, not only from the surrounding states who must now go without, but from the rest of the nation. Money that was not theirs went to building it. Yes, it benefited other states as well, but so long as the seceding state wants to lay their hands on it with exclusivity, they better be damn well prepared to reimburse those who gave it to them.

 

[Sonereal]

It'd be useful if someone could fish out that graph of the top 10 biggest givers/takers among the states for government revenue.

Would this help?

Note an interesting fact about these “giver” states? Only one, Texas, is a so-called red state. All the rest are blue states which pretty consistently vote Democratic.

The so called taker states include six “blue” states, 21 “red” states and seven “swing” states. This should give pause to those on the right who mutter about “succession” if Obama gets re-elected. They have more to lose than to gain by breaking with the largesse, er, “shackles” of the federal government.

http://scotterb.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/givers-vs-takers/

 

[Crezth]

Thank you, precisely what I was looking for.

 

[Farm Boy]

It still isn't that useful. Exactly the same problem with using that graph for "ah-hah!" exists as when a Republicans whine that "they made their money on their own" and shouldn't have to help pay for infrastructure expenses that enabled them to do so.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Would this help?

http://scotterb.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/givers-vs-takers/

Texas is also one of the biggest states.....

No wonder Texas is the one being the most vocal about secession?

Republic of Paulian Teahadistan here we come!

 

[Traitorfish]

Texas can't secede; just think how ugly it would make the US border.

 

[Crezth]

It still isn't that useful. Exactly the same problem with using that graph for "ah-hah!" exists as when a Republicans whine that "they made their money on their own" and shouldn't have to help pay for infrastructure expenses that enabled them to do so.

I'm not sure I follow? You see, I'm not attempting to be negative about the so-called "taker" states, because I am happy to include them in the union. The union is just that, after all: out of many, one. Or if I may be trite, all for one and one for all.

So when red-faced secessionists bleat about my ilk stealing from them, and demanding that they be afforded proper liberty as only independence can give them, that is deeply insulting. Our partnership, the fruits of our mutual labor, crisscrosses the nation and the resulting infrastructure is merely a manifestation of the strength of our federation - strength that only shows itself through our collective efforts. To cut and run now would be to tear an important silk strand out of the core of a spider's web, one which when lost renders the entire structure untenable. For all talk of respecting the sovereignty of states, it is remarkable how much contempt there is for the other states when talk of secession arises.

 

[Farm Boy]

Well US succession really is a dead argument. Quite literally in a lot of ways. The fact that the chart isn't all that useful when approaching this issue is true from both sides. Federation is deeply ingrained. That isn't a full non-starter on its own though. The fact that I am equally inclined to tell a Texan as a Scotsman as a Northern Irishman to get the eff over the failings of yesteryear and move on doesn't actually mean that it's the whole picture or that the technical problems of peaceful separation are insurmountable.

 

[Crezth]

The chart is really more useful when discussing, among other things, the question of whom the debt should be saddled come secession. I believe that's why I originally asked for it.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Texas is also one of the biggest states.....

No wonder Texas is the one being the most vocal about secession?

Republic of Paulian Teahadistan here we come!

Mexico called: it would like its Texans back.

Observent note: if Texas succeeded but no other state declared itself to be outside the USA, what would its geograthical impacted by being landlocked between two nations?

Consideration of Mongolia in its position between China and Russia are to be considered.

 

[Cutlass]

Texas has 100s of miles of coastline and major port cities.....

 

[Ailedhoo]

Texas has 100s of miles of coastline and major port cities.....

What...

DOH!

Mistake on my part!

 

[GhostWriter16]

Realized this is the Chamber, please delete...