The Case for Eugenics in a Nutshell

[Abaddon]

Also, you don't exactly choose what character class you want to be.

You either are born that way or you are not.

 

[Ecofarm]

I choose a genetically engineered dark-elf-giant.

 

[Abaddon]

I choose a genetically engineered dark-elf-giant.

Aww, an I thought you could actually hold a debate and respond to what is being said. Shame.

Failed the Turin Test. Bye!

Anyone else?

 

[Ecofarm]

Ok, I don't know what that means so I guess we're even.

Good day.

 

[laffy]

I mean take Steven Hawking.. has he any kids?
Chances are, his kids would be smarter than yours
Especially if combined with a smart female.

He was on TV with his daughter once, and she seemed like a normal middle aged woman, not at all a genius, and with very common interests. She was responsible for getting Steven to help her write some physics books for early elementary-school-aged children, or something like that. I don't really know how high her IQ is though.

One of the problems with what you're proposing is that while much of intelligence might be hereditary, the pattern isn't always easily recognizable. There are many cases of genius children born to very average IQ parents. On the news a while ago, a toddler with an IQ of >160 was born to a working class family. The dad is a construction worker and the mom flunked high school science class!

Another problem with trying to control for IQ is that it's not a complete measure of intelligence. It might not even be a very good one. Some very great achievements were done by people, even scientists with very low IQs. William Shockley had a pretty meager IQ of 125. Feynman claimed to receive an IQ of 126 in his biography, but he might have just been playing a joke on everyone.

 

[Earthling]

Aww, an I thought you could actually hold a debate and respond to what is being said. Shame.

Failed the Turin Test. Bye!

I should think so, for someone who prides themself on being what they view as an atheist.

Also, you seem to have entirely missed the satire inherent in discussing the analogies to various character classes and alignment. Such concepts of permanent fixation are woefully outdated and for the most part not held in high regards anymore, much like the antiquated programs of eugenics that it sounds like you are advocating, and are being criticized.

Lastly, why the necro? I don't see much more discussion to be had here. Also, I am not a proponent of current eugenics beyond what might be better termed as mere social engineering in encouraging population stability, raising the standard of living etc...

 

[Munch]

I think a "state/nation/island/sect/guild/scion of darkness/Brotherhood" should be created, with those only admitted who have proven "advantageous" genes.

While avoiding inbreeding and wotnot (cos they're not idiots) would this not be a good thing?

I say go full-on caste system while you're at it. The state can raise the children too, freeing the strong-caste workers etc from responsibility so they can do what they excel at. Of course it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included, to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition ... o/

 

[Ecofarm]

I should think so, for someone who prides themself on being what they view as an atheist.

1. I don't take pride in it. I think it is a basic intellectual development, but descriptive.

2. I'm pretty sure that I know what atheism is. Implying that I don't is weak sauce.

3. I don't know what the "Turin Test" is and I don't care; I'm not some internet wiz kid with all the bang words.

4. I didn't ask for your personal evaluation.

 

[Gabryel Karolin]

Humans are what make our civilization great. The uneducated, lower class, nonintellectual human beings have just as much worth as the rich smart ones do.

Thats what we're taught to say in this kind of discussion, but as much worth to whom?

If you value everyone equally you're pretty much a psychopath (if you'd choose to save the lives of two strangers instead of your old mom, etc), value is subjective.

 

[Munch]

3. I don't know what the "Turin Test" is and I don't care; I'm not some internet wiz kid with all the bang words.

It was probably a typo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

Unless it was supposed to be Turin test, which I can only imagine is some kind of radiocarbon dating process.

 

[Ecofarm]

So Abaddon was calling me stupid? That's rich.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

lurker's comment:
The Case for Eugenics in a smaller Nutshell:

China's doing it already. They have a 15-year head start. Good luck convincing them to please stop.

Article 18 If one of the following cases is detected in the pre-natal diagnosis, the physician shall explain the situations to the married couple and give them medical advice on a termination of gestation:

(1) the fetus is suffering from a genetic disease of a serious nature;

(2) the fetus is with a defect of a serious nature; or

(3) continued gestation may jeopardize the safety of life of the pregnant woman or seriously impair her health, due to the serious disease she suffers from.


Article 19 Termination of gestation or performance of ligation operations practised in accordance with the provisions of this Law shall be subject to the consent and signing of the person per se. If the person per se has no capacity for civil conduct, it shall be subject to the consent and signing of the guardian of the person.

Whoever is to terminate gestation or receive ligation operations under this Law shall receive such services free of charge.

This looks to me like "if the fetus is dysgenic, please have an abortion, the state will pay". Article 10 has a run-on sentence in my translation that might be interpreted to mean "if you're dysgenic, get sterilized before marrying", but I'm less sure of that.

 

[Azale]

So the fact that the PRC does it is supposed to convince me eugenics is awesome?

 

[Gustave5436]

So Abaddon was calling me stupid? That's rich.

Technically, I believe failing the Turing test would imply that the subject does not possess consciousness, because any computer which could pass the Turing test would be conscious, whereas our PCs certainly are not. So, I suppose he could have just been saying that you're not a real person.

This looks to me like "if the fetus is dysgenic, please have an abortion, the state will pay".

More like, "if the fetus has a gazillion extra gene sequences in the gene that causes Huntington's disease (hence would likely be very early onset), the women will be advised on the option of abortion." At least, that's the letter of it, which certainly doesn't have to correspond to the practice, especially with an authoritarian government.

 

[Gooblah]

Couldn't all these problems be solved through greater focus on education and development?

I mean, sure, intelligence is hereditary in some part. But I'd bet that a majority of the factors that contribute to intelligence are based on a child's developmental environment. Probably why a kid raised in a poor urban setting is less likely to go far in this world than a suburbanite.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Thats what we're taught to say in this kind of discussion, but as much worth to whom?

The people responsible for making decisions related to their well-being?

If you value everyone equally you're pretty much a psychopath (if you'd choose to save the lives of two strangers instead of your old mom, etc), value is subjective.

A pyschopath, or just relentlessly utilitarian.

And if value is subjective, there is certainly no use in saying that the intelligent are more valuable.

 

[Mise]

Couldn't all these problems be solved through greater focus on education and development?

I mean, sure, intelligence is hereditary in some part. But I'd bet that a majority of the factors that contribute to intelligence are based on a child's developmental environment. Probably why a kid raised in a poor urban setting is less likely to go far in this world than a suburbanite.

Yes, exactly. It doesn't matter how many "intelligent" people you breed, if they're kept from fulfilling their potential by a system that rewards those born into wealth and not intelligence there's no point.

On a personal level, I'd rather marry someone I fell in love with than someone who ticked all the right boxes on match.com.

 

[Abaddon]

So Abaddon was calling me stupid? That's rich.

No, I was saying that you have an inability to rationally respond to what I am saying.

 

[Earthling]

Well, despite me making fun of your misspelling, it still doesn't answer why you necroed this thread just to potentially get in a flame war with other users? It's not like we don't even have active threads on basically the same broad topics (since there haven't been any new links/info)

 

[dirtyparrot]

Obviously the OP fails to understand even the most simple principle of genetics that could be learned from reading an introductory genetics textbook (similar to the Nazis ironically enough). The simple explanation is that most characteristics are coded by multiple genes and that recessive alleles can persist in a population for a very long time regardless of whether the trait it codes for is deleterious. That's ignoring for the moment the role that the physical environment plays in the expression of many traits.