The Case for Eugenics in a Nutshell

[Abaddon]

Couldn't all these problems be solved through greater focus on education and development?

I mean, sure, intelligence is hereditary in some part. But I'd bet that a majority of the factors that contribute to intelligence are based on a child's developmental environment. Probably why a kid raised in a poor urban setting is less likely to go far in this world than a suburbanite.

Why not do both?

Sure, education unlocks the potential that is there.
But why not try and increase the frequency in potential?

 

[Abaddon]

And if value is subjective, there is certainly no use in saying that the intelligent are more valuable.

Intelligence has a bigger effect moving man "forward" than any other quality does it not?

 

[Mise]

You've been breeding cattle too long.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Intelligence has a bigger effect moving man "forward" than any other quality does it not?

For certain values of "forward", sure. But is a society with higher levels of technology inherently better than one with lower levels?

 

[Mise]

For certain values of "forward", sure. But is a society with higher levels of technology inherently better than one with lower levels?

All else equal? I can't see how you could argue otherwise.

 

[Abaddon]

I want the future, I want it now!

I want the stars!

Sure there is blissful ignorance, grubbing around with sticks and using sharp sticks...but seriously?


I want to live to ever. I need a lot of clever people to get together to make that happen

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

All else equal? I can't see how you could argue otherwise.

What I mean is, are the human beings within that society inherently more valuable? To the degree that intelligent people who can bring it about are worth more than those who can't?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

So the fact that the PRC does it is supposed to convince me eugenics is awesome?

No, the argument is supposed be that you can do eugenics too, or you can let the PRC win.

 

[Ecofarm]

As much as I hate to admit it, the world needs more than just smarts.

 

[Abaddon]

What I mean is, are the human beings within that society inherently more valuable? To the degree that intelligent people who can bring it about are worth more than those who can't?

Those who bring progress should be more valuable than those than simply live.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Those who bring progress should be more valuable than those than simply live.

Valuable in what sense? And who decides this value?

 

[Abaddon]

As much as I hate to admit it, the world needs more than just smarts.

I'll re-engage as long as we promise not to go Dungeon Trolling, er, I mean trawling again


True.. but it couldn't hurt to have more smarts?

 

[Mise]

What I mean is, are the human beings within that society inherently more valuable?

No, but that's not the right question to ask, is it? The question should be, "should we strive for technological improvements?" There's a clear moral argument for this -- we should make technological improvements that will reduce suffering, e.g. hunger, poverty, disease, etc etc. The next part then makes sense, in that context:

To the degree that intelligent people who can bring it about are worth more than those who can't?

No, of course not! Abbadon's reducing the entire human experience to breeding cattle.

 

[Abaddon]

Valuable in what sense? And who decides this value?

Humanity is better off due to their existance.

Of course there is no tangiable value, nor is ther anyone who could be in a position to decide such a value.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

No, but that's not the right question to ask, is it? The question should be, "should we strive for technological improvements?" There's a clear moral argument for this -- we should make technological improvements that will reduce suffering, e.g. hunger, poverty, disease, etc etc.

I agree . . . but I don;t think extraordinary steps need to be taken.

The next part then makes sense, in that context: . . .
No, of course not! Abbadon's reducing the entire human experience to breeding cattle.

Is what I am saying. Is technological advancement the ultimate purpose of human existance?

Humanity is better off due to their existance.

Of course there is no tangiable value, nor is ther anyone who could be in a position to decide such a value.

Then how does it all apply to eugenics anyways?

 

[Mise]

Humanity is better off due to their existance.

Of course there is no tangiable value, nor is ther anyone who could be in a position to decide such a value.

Of all the people that made your existence better off due to their presence, how many would you consider "very intelligent"? Say, how many got 3 A's at A-level? Or a 1st class degree at uni? etc. I bet there's absolutely no correlation between, say, IQ and how happy they made you... Nor would any rational person expect there to be...

Yet you think these smart people are gonna make your life better...?

 

[Abaddon]

Of all the people that made your existence better off due to their presence, how many would you consider "very intelligent"? Say, how many got 3 A's at A-level? Or a 1st class degree at uni? etc. I bet there's absolutely no correlation between, say, IQ and how happy they made you... Nor would any rational person expect there to be...

Yet you think these smart people are gonna make your life better...?

I'm not talking about something as trivial as happiness.


#edit. Intelligence is not pure education. I'm sure there are lots of things done by people without education behind them.

 

[Abaddon]

Then how does it all apply to eugenics anyways?

Eugenics does have to be about denying those the right to breed.
It can be breeding with a purpose above pure reproduction.
Thats why i'm saying those who have advanced humanity should breed more!

 

[Mise]

I'm not talking about something as trivial as happiness.

I said "better off".

 

[Earthling]

Abaddon has hit on one thing that's pretty much absolutely right though, which is also of course a huge problem with various eugenics programs. Even if not explicitly so, it would seem the net effect, via using resources etc... is

Eugenics does have to be about denying those the right to breed.