"The Liberal Media"

[peter grimes]

Just because they are further to left than the general media, doesn't make mainstream media not biased towards the left and thus generally liberal.

It seems that most people here are not seeing the bias n the media, since it thir bias also, so they are seeing the media as they want to.

Except, again, if you aren't familiar with the work of Chomsky & Herman then you're sort of blind to the assumptions you're making. Maybe you have a different definition of 'left' than is generally accepted

 

[JollyRoger]

If the major media outlets are owned by large corporations and corporations are just people trying to maximize gains in the free market, if the media is liberal, does that mean that liberalism sells better than conservatism or does that mean the free market doesn't work?

 

[Crezth]

Non-Americans would do well to note that if a real American were to find himself stranded in the wilderness, starving and dying of thirst, our greatest dread would be that a government official might wander by with water and food and that we might find ourselves without a weapon or the strength to use one.

A real American wouldn't get lost in his own damn country.

 

[Cutlass]

Fox News' news programs aren`t biased.

Yes, they are the definition of bias, since they do exclusively what a political group and agenda want them to do. Fox news specifically works for the Republican agenda, and dismisses contrary evidence without a hearing.

Why does it matter at all?

You're making the claim that the news has a liberal bias when it doesn't even make the claim, the factual claim, that the Democrats are a conservative party.

Just because they are further to left than the general media, doesn't make mainstream media not biased towards the left and thus generally liberal.

It seems that most people here are not seeing the bias n the media, since it thir bias also, so they are seeing the media as they want to.

You would still have to demonstrate some evidence of bias. When the so-called liberal media doesn't even contradict the conservative press releases, how can you claim they have a liberal bias?

 

[Dreadnought]

You're making the claim that the news has a liberal bias when it doesn't even make the claim, the factual claim, that the Democrats are a conservative party.

Politics isn't objectively scaled.

So what if the Democrats are "conservative by European standards".

It's the USA.

Your point is noted and rejected.

 

[JollyRoger]

Fox is apparently liberal by American standards. The free market is really failing here.

 

[Flying Pig]

Politics isn't objectively scaled.

...yes it is! David Cameron doesn't magically become left-wing because we compare him with Thatcher!

 

[Cutlass]

Politics isn't objectively scaled.

So what if the Democrats are "conservative by European standards".

It's the USA.

Your point is noted and rejected.

You have a Democratic party and a main stream media, neither of which advocate for liberal causes. And so that's the definition of leftists for you?

 

[Dachs]

...yes it is! David Cameron doesn't magically become left-wing because we compare him with Thatcher!

Correct. They, like virtually every other British politician, are right wing, because they do not support the overthrow of the monarchy.

 

[madviking]

I go to Al-Jazeera for all my antimonarchical news.

 

[Flying Pig]

Correct. They, like virtually every other British politician, are right wing, because they do not support the overthrow of the monarchy.

Except that they all support the Republican government of France, so does that make them all left-wing?

 

[peter grimes]

Correct. They, like virtually every other British politician, are right wing, because they do not support the overthrow of the monarchy.

Perhaps now would be a good time to describe what each of us* think 'right/conservative' & 'left/liberal' imply.

More right = more authoritarian, stricter controls on personal freedom, interests aligned with the status quo of power.

I'm likely missing some major issues, as I haven't ever formally studied this stuff.

*for some reason I always mentally picture 'right-wing' as being geometrically to the left of the middle. how odd!

 

[Dachs]

Except that they all support the Republican government of France, so does that make them all left-wing?

Not intrinsically. Lack of interest in intervention to change a situation does not mean that an alternative situation is still more desirable.

 

[Flying Pig]

The right is always the party sector associated with the interests of the upper or dominant classes, the left the sector expressive of the lower economic or social classes, and the center that of the middle classes. Historically this criterion seems acceptable. The conservative right has defended entrenched prerogatives, privileges and powers; the left has attacked them. The right has been more favorable to the aristocratic position, to the hierarchy of birth or of wealth; the left has fought for the equalization of advantage or of opportunity, for the claims of the less advantaged. Defense and attack have met, under democratic conditions, not in the name of class but in the name of principle; but the opposing principles have broadly corresponded to the interests of the different classes

Of course, most British politicians are right-wing by that standard as well

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I think one major point here that no one has brought up is the systematic substitution of opinion and punditry in place of actual reporting in the media.

It's hard to watch any cable new channel for a reporting story that does not involve someone making commentary on it. In fact, it's hard to find any stories that are not reported to you by someone that is a pundit. Yet they all fancy themselves reporters.

Punditry and the pundit class, in my opinion, have contributed enormously to the polarization of our politics. While I credit Americans as being an intelligent people, we collectively seem to miss the difference between fact and opinion.

 

[Skwink]

Have you seen some of the commentators on MSNBC?

Does MSNBC even have any Conservative shows their channel? My dad watches it a lot and all I ever see is Rachel Maddow, Ed Shultz, Some Chris guy, and Al Sharpton. Keith Obermann used to be there but didn't he get fired?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Does MSNBC even have any Conservative shows their channel? My dad watches it a lot and all I ever see is Rachel Maddow, Ed Shultz, Some Chris guy, and Al Sharpton. Keith Obermann used to be there but didn't he get fired?

They mostly entirely have liberal talk show hosts, AFAIK. But on many of the shows they make a point of inviting on conservative commentators and give them air time. Granted, the conservatives lose every argument they participate in on MSNBC, but the quality of the arguments are > quality of anything on Fox.

Edit: I make a point of watching Fox. Know thy enemy and all.

 

[Dachs]

Does MSNBC even have any Conservative shows their channel? My dad watches it a lot and all I ever see is Rachel Maddow, Ed Shultz, Some Chris guy, and Al Sharpton. Keith Obermann used to be there but didn't he get fired?

Keith Olbermann is not a conservative.

 

[JollyRoger]

Does MSNBC even have any Conservative shows their channel? My dad watches it a lot and all I ever see is Rachel Maddow, Ed Shultz, Some Chris guy, and Al Sharpton. Keith Obermann used to be there but didn't he get fired?

About 48 hours worth of Lock-up every weekend.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

About 48 hours worth of Lock-up every weekend.

OMG I can't believe I forgot about that! Why do they do that? Are their weekend ratings that bad? Makes me feel like I live in a police state whenever I see that show

Edit: This illustrates the lack of journalism and actual reporting on cable news channels that I spoke on earlier.