The Very-Many-Questions-Not-Worth-Their-Own-Thread Thread XL

[MaryKB]

Why are guys so shy about being on video calls??

I get this at work too, so many are afraid of the camera. Well they have to be on the calls, but so many talk about putting little things over their cameras. I just don't get it!

I find it's so nice to see someone's face who you're talking to.

 

[Farm Boy]

My house isn't up to snuff for the level of class put on display in mandatory video calls. Nor is my webcam from the last decade. Salaried employees get laptops from work. I'm usually wrangling 3rd grade in the background. If i mute, nobody knows about the tears over math. It goes on.

 

[local_hero]

Why are guys so shy about being on video calls??

I get this at work too, so many are afraid of the camera. Well they have to be on the calls, but so many talk about putting little things over their cameras. I just don't get it!

I find it's so nice to see someone's face who you're talking to.

I hadn't really used video calls pre corona, but I like it more than just audio because of that reason.

 

[Takhisis]

Thinking about learning some Greek to read classical texts. Should I do Koine or Modern Greek? Koine is what they're written in, but from what I understand Modern Greek is pretty intelligible with it and then I'd have the advantage of it being a living language (for my purposes I probably wouldn't have to reach fluency). And there's easy resources like Duolingo.

I don't want to do Attic Greek, being able to read Aristotle is tempting but it's apparently complex and seems like a more limited return on investment. I suppose I could be convinced.

Ancient Greek. Otherwise it's like learning Dutch to read some German Yiddish texts.

Why are guys so shy about being on video calls??

I get this at work too, so many are afraid of the camera. Well they have to be on the calls, but so many talk about putting little things over their cameras. I just don't get it!

I find it's so nice to see someone's face who you're talking to.

There's this privacy thing. At so many levels.
a) my home is not an actual office so I'm not going to bother to shower, wash and shave
b) given the levels of pervasive spying not just by state actors but also by random freebooters who e.g. steal people's fingerprints off instagram holiday pictures in order to get fake credit cards and loans, it's actually a security risk
c) other people might live there, they haven't been consulted
d) it's my home, dammit, I don't want people commenting on the decor or lack of it.

&c. &c.

 

[warpus]

We were having this discussion in a Star Trek context and I have unanswered questions. It's not about star trek at all.

You know how some people select "non-binary" from the gender dropdown? It's because they don't identify with either of the 2 traditional genders, right?

What's the equivalent of "non-binary" in a species that has 3 sexes? Is it when there's 3 traditional genders that align with the 3 sexes and a member of this species does not identify as any of those 3 traditional genders? Or am I misunderstanding what non-binary is? (Yeah, they probably wouldn't call it binary - that's not the question)

What if there's a species that has 2 biological sexes like we do, but traditionally they use 3 genders. What would non-binary be for those aliens? Would that concept mean that you don't self-identify as any of those 3 genders? Or is it more related to the biological sex being tied to traditional roles? Or something else?

I used to think I know what it means, but then I started thinking about it in terms of a species that has more sexes than we do, and now I'm not so sure

 

[Takhisis]

@cardgame you got the new thread, it's over 24 hours since Synsensa made post #1000

 

[Birdjaguar]

@warpus good luck!

 

[The_J]

We were having this discussion in a Star Trek context and I have unanswered questions. It's not about star trek at all.

You know how some people select "non-binary" from the gender dropdown? It's because they don't identify with either of the 2 traditional genders, right?

What's the equivalent of "non-binary" in a species that has 3 sexes? Is it when there's 3 traditional genders that align with the 3 sexes and a member of this species does not identify as any of those 3 traditional genders? Or am I misunderstanding what non-binary is? (Yeah, they probably wouldn't call it binary - that's not the question)

What if there's a species that has 2 biological sexes like we do, but traditionally they use 3 genders. What would non-binary be for those aliens? Would that concept mean that you don't self-identify as any of those 3 genders? Or is it more related to the biological sex being tied to traditional roles? Or something else?

I used to think I know what it means, but then I started thinking about it in terms of a species that has more sexes than we do, and now I'm not so sure

Just make it "non-trinary" .

There are some societies which have (not very prevalent though, even in these, AFAIK) more than 2 genders (see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia) ), but since these are more traditional societies, I guess they haven't arrived at the "I don't feel like any of these" stage yet.

 

[Takhisis]

We were having this discussion in a Star Trek context and I have unanswered questions. It's not about star trek at all.

You know how some people select "non-binary" from the gender dropdown? It's because they don't identify with either of the 2 traditional genders, right?

What's the equivalent of "non-binary" in a species that has 3 sexes? Is it when there's 3 traditional genders that align with the 3 sexes and a member of this species does not identify as any of those 3 traditional genders? Or am I misunderstanding what non-binary is? (Yeah, they probably wouldn't call it binary - that's not the question)

What if there's a species that has 2 biological sexes like we do, but traditionally they use 3 genders. What would non-binary be for those aliens? Would that concept mean that you don't self-identify as any of those 3 genders? Or is it more related to the biological sex being tied to traditional roles? Or something else?

I used to think I know what it means, but then I started thinking about it in terms of a species that has more sexes than we do, and now I'm not so sure

Obviously it'd be ‘non-trinary’.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Untrinitarian!

 

[Cutlass]

We were having this discussion in a Star Trek context and I have unanswered questions. It's not about star trek at all.

You know how some people select "non-binary" from the gender dropdown? It's because they don't identify with either of the 2 traditional genders, right?

What's the equivalent of "non-binary" in a species that has 3 sexes? Is it when there's 3 traditional genders that align with the 3 sexes and a member of this species does not identify as any of those 3 traditional genders? Or am I misunderstanding what non-binary is? (Yeah, they probably wouldn't call it binary - that's not the question)

What if there's a species that has 2 biological sexes like we do, but traditionally they use 3 genders. What would non-binary be for those aliens? Would that concept mean that you don't self-identify as any of those 3 genders? Or is it more related to the biological sex being tied to traditional roles? Or something else?

I used to think I know what it means, but then I started thinking about it in terms of a species that has more sexes than we do, and now I'm not so sure

Non trianary. Same basic concept. For reasons beyond what I have the ability to explain, some segment of the population does not feel that they personally fall within the standard gender definitions of their society/species. So give it whatever label floats your boat. But it's the same concept. Biology is just messier than social constructs account for.

 

[warpus]

Obviously it'd be ‘non-trinary’.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about what we'd call it, I was talking about what it would mean.

I get that it's the "same basic concept", but in our case we have 2 sexes and our 2 traditional genders happen to align to these 2 sexes. It's almost the simplest situation possible.

What happens when the traditional genders don't align with the sexes? So say you have a species with 3 sexes, but traditionally they have 5 genders. The sexes do not necessarily align with the genders. What does non-trinary mean then? Like, what does it imply?

Like I said, it's super simple in our case, but it's easy to imagine more convoluted examples. Does this concept not make sense if you have a society where the traditional genders don't align with the sexes?

 

[Synobun]

Yeah, I wasn't talking about what we'd call it, I was talking about what it would mean.

I get that it's the "same basic concept", but in our case we have 2 sexes and our 2 traditional genders happen to align to these 2 sexes. It's almost the simplest situation possible.

What happens when the traditional genders don't align with the sexes? So say you have a species with 3 sexes, but traditionally they have 5 genders. The sexes do not necessarily align with the genders. What does non-trinary mean then? Like, what does it imply?

Like I said, it's super simple in our case, but it's easy to imagine more convoluted examples. Does this concept not make sense if you have a society where the traditional genders don't align with the sexes?

The issue you're coming up against is that nonbinary expression in humans is inherently anthropomorphic, so applying the same theory to other species requires an assumption that they're psychologically similar to us. There are reasons why it's "nonbinary" for us, a big one being that we've long been a species incredibly focused on the binary. You can see more evidence of this within "third gender" cultures, where the third gender is often some bend or amalgam of the binary when they aren't relegated to mysticism. Nonbinary is a rejection of that historical and sociological profile, wherein it doesn't have to be male or female or "somewhere in between," but instead divorced of the idea entirely.

 

[warpus]

The issue you're coming up against is that nonbinary expression in humans is inherently anthropomorphic, so applying the same theory to other species requires an assumption that they're psychologically similar to us. There are reasons why it's "nonbinary" for us, a big one being that we've long been a species incredibly focused on the binary. You can see more evidence of this within "third gender" cultures, where the third gender is often some bend or amalgam of the binary when they aren't relegated to mysticism. Nonbinary is a rejection of that historical and sociological profile, wherein it doesn't have to be male or female or "somewhere in between," but instead divorced of the idea entirely.

This came up because we have a character on one of the Star Trek shows that's now airing that is non-binary. Somebody said that this is the first time we've had a non-binary Trek character, but then somebody said: "Hey, what about that species with 3 genders?", and yadda yadda now everyone's wondering what the term "non-binary" would mean in all sorts of strange situations you can encounter on a sci-fi show (and maybe out there in our universe too)

The thing is that the alien societies depicted on Star Trek are anthropomorhic to an extent as well; these alien races are supposed to mirror human characteristics so we can relate to them and learn whatever lesson and so on.. I mean take any random species from Star Trek. They wear pants, they have jobs, they eat dinners and breakfasts, they poop in a toilet, they drink rum, they're human! So it seems it should be able to extend this concept to hypothetical scenarios that might appear on the show (i.e. an alien species with 4 genders or what have you), unless it's a concept that only applies to humans? Which I've never seen it described as such (but I haven't looked very far either)

If it's basically a rejection of traditional gender roles like you say, and that's the "real" definition of what it means, then I get it. But if that's the case why won't people just say that? I also get that if there were really aliens with 4 genders out there, our social studies people would come up with new terms for all their social behaviours, and this whole question I am asking would be an entire field of study instead of one question on some random forum.

 

[Synobun]

This came up because we have a character on one of the Star Trek shows that's now airing that is non-binary. Somebody said that this is the first time we've had a non-binary Trek character, but then somebody said: "Hey, what about that species with 3 genders?", and yadda yadda now everyone's wondering what the term "non-binary" would mean in all sorts of strange situations you can encounter on a sci-fi show (and maybe out there in our universe too)

The thing is that the alien societies depicted on Star Trek are anthropomorhic to an extent as well; these alien races are supposed to mirror human characteristics so we can relate to them and learn whatever lesson and so on.. I mean take any random species from Star Trek. They wear pants, they have jobs, they eat dinners and breakfasts, they poop in a toilet, they drink rum, they're human! So it seems it should be able to extend this concept to hypothetical scenarios that might appear on the show (i.e. an alien species with 4 genders or what have you), unless it's a concept that only applies to humans? Which I've never seen it described as such (but I haven't looked very far either)

If it's basically a rejection of traditional gender roles like you say, and that's the "real" definition of what it means, then I get it. But if that's the case why won't people just say that? I also get that if there were really aliens with 4 genders out there, our social studies people would come up with new terms for all their social behaviours, and this whole question I am asking would be an entire field of study instead of one question on some random forum.

You lost me a little there. Which people? You said outside of Star Trek, so who cares about Star Trek? You could just ask a real nonbinary person what the term means and then see if it can apply wholesale to a hypothetical alien species.

 

[warpus]

By people I mean I've been talking with various people about this subject on and off all day and nobody's ever just said "oh it's just a rejection of traditional genders, that's what this term means". I should have been more clear.

I don't know any non-binary people that I know of (but then again who knows), so I can't ask any, and I wouldn't expect them to necessarily be amused to be asked about hypothetical alien non-binary situation in the first place, which is why I'm asking the peanut gallery here.

I don't understand your objections about Star Trek. The original conversation was in a star trek context and the hypothetical scenario makes sense in that context too. So why wouldn't I bring it up?

 

[Kyriakos]

@Mouthwash , it heavily depends on what you want to read.
If it is the ptolemaic translation of the old testament, modern greek will do. (same for the new testament, even easier actually).
If it is Plato, Takhisis is right, it won't be very practical. For Aristotle it will be even worse, and certainly not a good idea to try to read drama in that way.

Some terms are not there, but it is usually nouns or verbs. Eg Socrates' famous saying, "I only know that I know nothing", is Εν οίδα ότι ουδέν είδα, of which only the "οίδα" would be changed to something else, like "γνωρίζω" (obviously the phrase is used as is in common greek too, but you won't see "οίδα" in many other places).

Syntax remains the same, as do most words, but grammar is considerably different in ancient greek.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I see the new thread is now up!

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Thread closed.
New thread can be found here.