Trump explained - because you all are blind

[El_Machinae]

Ah, you're just rejecting the premise of the question. That the term 'pathological liar' is a nonsense word.

That's fine, but it's quite cromulent in context. "Trump is a pathological liar" is a phrase people understand. But for you, it's as useful to discussion as me saying "Well, I think that because I'm furfleblab".

Let's just say, his lying is of the sort that I cannot honestly tell if he's lying to himself, stupid, or intentionally lying. That's how bad it is.

Even if he flits between those three different motivations, I cannot tell which one is motivating the lie.

 

[Ryika]

Don't know whether he's a " pathological" liar, but he has certainly lied in situations where it made absolutely no sense to do so. That one thing about the boy scout something-something endorsing him is an obvious example. Looked very much like a compulsory lie to me, given that it should have been very obvious to him that it would most likely backfire if he had thought about it rationally.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I give a lot of thought to how Trump lies. I too haven't settled on whether I would regard him as a pathological liar.

My version of Hygro's "BS" is "hype." He just routinely ups the values of things associated with him. All of the lies I've heard do have in common that they present him in what he thinks will be a more favorable light. Maybe pathological liars' lies all tend in that direction also; I guess I'll have to start acquainting myself with whatever passes for the best definition of pathological liar. The Boy Scout lie falls into that category; the NFL lie. Surprised DSM doesn't have it as a diagnosis (going to double-check that claim).

On one of the commentary shows, I heard one psychologist make the claim that you can only call a condition "pathological" if it interferes with the person's life, and that, since Trump's habitual lying doesn't seem to (yet) do so, that psychologist wouldn't classify him as a pathological liar.

But what I think most people informally mean by the word--tells lies constantly and often for no real reason--he seems to fit.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's telling how the debate is around what sort of liar Trump is. Not whether he is, but what flavour he is.

 

[Sommerswerd]

clinically defined??? Wasn't that your claim in your post???

EDIT. It's not included in the dsm BECAUSE there is not a consensus clinical opinion

EDIT 2....post #338...do i need to quote it again, dr. Sommerswerd?

First of all its couselor not doctor... get it right. Second you are right that since its not in DSM he probably can't be clinically diagnosed by a psychiatrist as a pathological liar, so I was wrong about that bit.

But again, that's irrelevant since he fits pretty much every definition of pathological liar... you keep fixating on this red herring argument about the DSM... Its just not relevant. Its like I spread peanut butter on two slices of bread, put it together and say "Now that's a peanut butter sandwich! I think we can clinically diagnose this as a peanut butter sandwich!" Then you come along and say "I would not he able to say one way or another whether that is a peanut butter sandwich since there is no clinical definition in DSM for a peanut butter sandwich"

Please... we know what a peanut butter sandwich is. We know what a pathological liar is... he's it. The DSM is irrelevant.

Anyway, let's just cut to the chase... Do you personally consider Trump a liar? As in a bigger liar than the average person? What about the average elected official?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Do you personally consider Trump a liar? As in a bigger liar than the average person? What about the average elected official?

Trump isn't a Pathological liar, he is just good at double thinking
Like most of hes supporters

 

[Broken_Erika]

Trump's not a liar, he's a purveyor of alternative facts.

 

[Hrothbern]

Considering how strong his support base is based on faith in him, ignoring normal facts.

You could also say that he is the messiah for the Kingdom of America First, and he lives already in that alternative reality, happy with everyone who follows him in that heaven.

 

[Ryika]

Trump is a lot like Jeremy Corbyn if you think about it. Says very little about actual applicable politics and lives in a fantasy world where things are true if you just put enough emotion into your words.

 

[bernie14]

.....Surprised DSM doesn't have it as a diagnosis (going to double-check that claim).

On one of the commentary shows, I heard one psychologist make the claim that you can only call a condition "pathological" if it interferes with the person's life, and that, since Trump's habitual lying doesn't seem to (yet) do so, that psychologist wouldn't classify him as a pathological liar.

But what I think most people informally mean by the word--tells lies constantly and often for no real reason--he seems to fit.

after reading sommers' wiki link, I went back and checked DSM 3 for criteria, but actually, pseudologia fantastica is NOT listed in dsm3, dsm 3r, 4, 4r 5, icd9 or icd10. if you try to medically "code" for "pathological lying" or "pseudologia fantastica", you are redirected to other dxs such as factitious disorder, antisocial personality or delusional disorder.

yes, most major psychiatric disorders (thought, mood, anxiety and personality disorders) have "functional" criteria, such as...

...."[the condition causes] impairment in function in one or more major areas: work, interpersonal relations or self care (markedly below the level prior to onset)---> for a child or adolescent there is failure to achieve expected level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational functioning"....

First of all its couselor not doctor... get it right. Second you are right that since its not in DSM he probably can't be clinically diagnosed by a psychiatrist as a pathological liar, so I was wrong about that bit.

But again, that's irrelevant since he fits pretty much every definition of pathological liar... you keep fixating on this red herring argument about the DSM... Its just not relevant. Its like I spread peanut butter on two slices of bread, put it together and say "Now that's a peanut butter sandwich! I think we can clinically diagnose this as a peanut butter sandwich!" Then you come along and say "I would not he able to say one way or another whether that is a peanut butter sandwich since there is no clinical definition in DSM for a peanut butter sandwich"

Please... we know what a peanut butter sandwich is. We know what a pathological liar is... he's it. The DSM is irrelevant.

Anyway, let's just cut to the chase... Do you personally consider Trump a liar? As in a bigger liar than the average person? What about the average elected official?

I get what you are saying but still see it somewhat differently.....its like you spread some light brownish paste (your choice, creamy or chunky) that might look, smell and/or taste like "peanut butter" between two slices of bread, and said "now that's a peanut butter sandwich!!" but the international council of nut specialists (pun intended) have said that they can't define what peanut butter really is, let alone what you are trying to feed me ....

regarding trump, I don't think he is a pathological liar (OPINION) but if we count his, ehem, slight "exaggerations" as lies, well, yes, he probably lies more than the "typical" politician, not by much though....

 

[El_Machinae]

What if we count his lies as lies?

 

[Zkribbler]

... he probably lies more than the "typical" politician, not by much though....

During the last campaign, Pulitzer-Prize-winning Politifact compared Trump to Hillary Clinton..Trump made six times as many false statements and six times as many "pants on fire" statements.

 

[Sommerswerd]

regarding trump, I don't think he is a pathological liar (OPINION) but if we count his, ehem, slight "exaggerations" as lies, well, yes, he probably lies more than the "typical" politician, not by much though....

Again, you really don't need to qualify your opinions as opinions, we really should all get that arguments on zee internets are all opinions... its really not that serious.

As for the amount of lies he tells versus the average politician... the way I see it is the lies are like milk and the glass symbolizes how much is too much. The typical politician fills that glass all the way to the brim... to the point where it forms that little bubble on the top where the liquid is actually a teensy bit over the top of the glass, but still not spilling over... there's no more room for additional lies... not even a little bit... really, its already way too much. Trumps lies spill milk all over the table and onto the floor, there is just no way to construe it as acceptable in any way.

 

[Zkribbler]

Trump tweeted,“We are building our future with American hands, American labor, American iron, aluminum and steel. Happy #LaborDay!” The tweet was accompanied by a photo of Trump and his wife.

Melania Trump was pictured wearing a dress by Greek designer Mary Katrantzou that was made in Italy with French materials. It’s not known who designed or manufactured the president’s suit (the White House did not immediately respond to an inquiry), but if the suit or tie is the president’s own label, it was likely made either in China, Mexico or Indonesia.

 

[Zkribbler]

800,000 people who grew up in America, who graduated from high school, who've never once been in trouble with the law, and who are willing to work hard to give back to thhe country that raised them, are due to be deported. Bwahahahaha!

Trump is a mad man! A maaaaad maaaaaaaaaaan! imho

 

[JollyRoger]

Neither Trump's wife nor his mother were made in America.

 

[plarq]

That is stupid, if it continues, Canada can hire the unemployed USian with 1/3 salary.
Make Canada Great Again!

 

[El_Machinae]

In fairness, isn't it the powers exercised around DACA actually within the Congress's remit? Like, Obama overstepped, because Congress was useless?

If a power is being wielded inappropriately, putting an expiraiton on it might be appropriate. Then let Congress pass legislation. Seems that DACA is popular enough that it should be able to generate an actual bipartisan bill, no?

 

[Synobun]

In fairness, isn't it the powers exercised around DACA actually within the Congress's remit? Like, Obama overstepped, because Congress was useless?

If a power is being wielded inappropriately, putting an expiraiton on it might be appropriate. Then let Congress pass legislation. Seems that DACA is popular enough that it should be able to generate an actual bipartisan bill, no?

The issue isn't the nature of an expiry date. The issue is that Trump repeals and reverses things without a replacement plan. He wants these people to be deported. If he didn't, he'd have an inkling of an alternative. Trump possesses an overwhelming need to destroy without any semblance of a need to repair or improve. Note how his 'negotiating' in these trade deals essentially amounts to "I don't like this so I'm leaving" instead of "I don't like this, how about x?"

His flagship healthcare campaign amounted to trying to repeal the ACA and hurriedly writing up an amendment (that he didn't even contribute to) hours before the vote.

So I think it's fair to label this move as cruel (as Obama put it) or as something simply detrimental to the people's faith in the US. If Trump cared, there would be an alternative on the table. There isn't.

Instead, we get conservatives on Twitter comparing living your entire life in the US as riding a stolen bicycle and having that bicycle rightfully reclaimed. Sessions boiled it down to a problem of the Constitution. McConnell said this will 'prevent human suffering' (while ICE has been told to feel free to deport once the expiration comes by). Trump is 'giving Congress a chance to fix it' by throwing a grenade and then utilizing the Irish Goodbye.

 

[El_Machinae]

I just don't know. It feels different from the ACA mess. This feels like a real opportunity to pass legislation with 60 votes. Isn't six months enough time? If Congress liked Obama's system, they could just vote to institute it.

The only reason something like this couldn't pass under Obama was that the entire Republican party was nutbar partisan. But it's certainly popular enough to get done.

The ACA fix was doomed. The nutbar contingent got the first bite at high profile legislation. They got slapped down