Trump's last(?) "Is he lying?"

Is it a concern?

  • I bet that NBC is probably lying

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The details in the 2nd last paragraph matter.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    14

El_Machinae

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Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
Fake @NBCNews made up a story that I wanted a "tenfold" increase in our U.S. nuclear arsenal. Pure fiction, made up to demean. NBC = CNN!


This is literally one of the most concerning tweets I have seen. This is something that deserves actual investigation.

The underlying question is this NBC article

Trump’s comments, the officials said, came in response to a briefing slide he was shown that charted the steady reduction of U.S. nuclear weapons since the late 1960s. Trump indicated he wanted a bigger stockpile, not the bottom position on that downward-sloping curve.

It's literally a yes/no question. Did he express a desire to see the stockpile increased when shown that graph? And did his interest result in over 9-fold increase from current levels?

There were a number of people at that meeting. People apparently remembered feeling a frisson of concern when he asked his question. Or else NBC is lying about people's surprise at his question. This is not an undiscoverable fact, or a wishy-washy "he said, she said". This was a statement made (or not) that struck a number of people as concerning.

It's a seriously important question. Is the President lying to the public in order to justify an assault on the First Amendment - not for the protection of the people, but in order to hide something that he actually did?

His threat is baseless, we all know that. And we all know that some people wouldn't mind an increase in nuclear weapons. Or that he was quickly convinced that what was necessary was an update of the arsenal but not an increase. None of those things matter, not at all.

It's a yes/no. Did he lie about a comment he made? Or did NBC? Now, if NBC lied, this is a concern (obviously) regarding the trustworthiness they're trying to market. But, if the President lied, I seriously consider this an impeachable offence. He's not merely lying about something he did, he's attacking the First Amendment as part of the strategy. Again, nothing in my second-last paragraph matters to the underlying question.
 
The thing about Trump is he just spouts absolute garbage constantly. There's no coherent grand strategy that can be found in analyzing his speech and determining if what he says is true or not. Almost everything he says and does is based on reactionary image defence and not careful analysis of what's best for the American people.
 
Well, El Mac, I'm afraid that I, for one, do think it is less cut-and-dried than the way you lay it out.

My reconstruction of the event runs as follows. Military advisers are walking Trump through some facts on our military. It includes a slide showing the number of nuclear weapons throughout history. They don't even want to focus on that slide. It's just in there for context or set-up for some more nuanced point. But ignoramus Trump, who has tuned out (or doesn't remember) decades of SALT and START treaties, just sees a downward sloping chart and he has Trump's knee-jerk reaction to anything that can be quantified: "MOAR = better." So he points to the slide and says "Why can't we have that high number right there?"

The advisers are startled: 1) that anyone could be so ignorant as to not know that we've had a steady reduction of nukes over the decades and 2) that anyone could be so dumb as not to regard those reductions as a positive triumph of destructive limitation in the nuclear age.

So Trump can now be telling his truth: namely, that he didn't ask for a return to the 1960s level ("All I did was ask why we couldn't have that big number"?). And the advisers can be telling a truth: namely, that this guy doesn't understand the principle that with nukes, less = better.

The press, in reporting the advisers' reaction, is reporting the truer truth: it is concerning to have as a president someone whose mind is so superficially MOAR = better as not to be able to see the advantage in limiting nukes, and even to cavalierly suggest that we might start rebuilding an arsenal. And Trump's reaction, in being called on it is the kind of lie that Perfection describes: reactionary image-defense. This is coming up in connection with Tillerson's calling him a moron, so he wants to distance himself even from idle inquiry.

That means that the NBC report is true and Trump's reaction is false, but it's not false in the way that can be determined as absolutely as you want this, his latest lie, to allow.

By the way, this might provide the pretext for another of my little essaylets on the nature of Trump's mendacity. Stay tuned.
 
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back in the days when "accuracy" was a bed time story told to kids , 20 megaton weapons were the things to have . As navigation was also a thing to ignore and stuff , people needed like tens of thousands of planes . Such expenditure emasculated American "options" with much blame put on after the debacles of Vietnam . Plus , conventional weapons now be equally used as intruments of mass murder . Trump would want a return to the old days , because he wants to be feared and he thinks he is not . Do not cut him too much slack , my dear Americans , for apparently you are not still ready for the fashions of Governance in this age .

edit of October 16th : running out of space in the referandum thread and as there's no particular in getting infracted for consecutive posting :

has a bit relevance to here with that tidbit of how Trump operates . You would have to read it all but it has an unprovable claim about that Weinstein affair . So let me assure you it's "not" particularly important enough a thing to bother .

Spoiler :


probably the end of the thread anyhow , as the referandum thing loses its urgency with the entire Western "Establishment" failing yet another chance to do what it so desirously lusts to do . My "antagonistic" web presence , in itself a joke , stems from this kinda and sorta funny thing . Which like involves millions if not tens of millions of deaths of that miserable worthless rabble of scum called the Turks , before the world moves into like great things and experiences , Me then becoming a time capsule and stuff for a later era when the Mankind grows into an adult , figuratively speaking . Big words ? You betcha . ı have been around , for like a decade [this way on the web itself , not CFC alone] for Uncle Sam come and teach Turkey its place in the world , you know , in the trash can . ı don't think ı will like ever beat Anne Frank's Diary in popularity and sales and stuff , but the basic fact that ı can't write any different anyhow and the so called intensely personal style to it is to ensure whatever ı rant is somewhat true or whatever and it will check out with whatever remains after the cleansing act , the purging of lies and stuff from human conciousness and similarly yuge words that will take place concurrently with our demise .

Spoiler :

you know , now that the Kurdish issue is like just a part of what the West wants to stick to explain why we were destroyed . Which still doesn't happen ; despite all the golden opportunities the funny state of New Turkey provides and if the Old was worth anything , the New wouldn't have happened in the first place ...

no , it's not because "we" have a terrifiying army of zombies that we will set upon the unsuspecting world ; 'cause it has apparently been discussed in the city . No , it's not because "we" are super rich and we go and bribe Washington . No , it's not because "we" have spies everywhere , with a man or two in the White House . No , it's not because "we" have better scientists and the whole lot to outperform the whole world in tech and whatever comes to mind . No , it's even not because "we" have big companies outta there , being "Jews" , with all possible explanations having failed . Big companies , like GE which famously had a 55 or 58 thousand pages long report in order not to pay a single cent of taxes . Not at all . But simply because

the world knows itself kinda well . The Congregation has long served the notion of creating a "smart" variety of Turks , with the added bonus of actually being "useful" idiots under the thumb of the West . The Disgrace of July 15th happens , some guy Australian guy appears and paints such a rosy picture . ı was so tempted to say at the time that it's so well known that the total number of Australians who actually know anything about Turkey is about 22 , in the past 4 or 5 decades . Including their clerks and drivers . With half of them having been proven under fire during Australia's thing in Vietnam ; because they are the kind of people who don't doubt that it would merely take 6 months tops for concentration camps for all kinds of "other" to appear all over the West from get go , they are the people who fear what the Mankind is capable of doing . Centuries of experience and tradition ? The very essense of Western Civilization , standarts , norms , laws , beliefs ? Give Donald Trump a nuke with the key on and see what happens .

with such a canvas to fill and me being an idiot to begin with it becomes real hard . ı might be always proven "right" but it's only because the course is always "steady" . One half of the West is like religiously crazy and the other half of it allows that to continue , because it keeps the action going on . And covers the cold rationality of the good guys of the West , killing and maiming and whatevering the rest of the world to keep themselves going , staying on top . Peace loving Carter started the whole Jihadi genre , believer Reagan kept in on , hypocrite Bush the First stayed the course , sax playing wife cheating Clinton never wavered , Billy the Goat reading Bush the Second was nimble enough to avoid shoes thrown at him and spineless jerk Obama was always a secret Muslim in the US propaganda . Some adoration or whatever at the realisation that ı stand exactly where ı stood a year ago . (A) ı do not like people keeping to play spy . The football season is on anyhow , don't people have anything else to talk about ? (B) It's dangerous to themselves , you know , liking me . (C) It's really easy anyhow . A feeling of uniqueness justifies anything . Now that America thinks it rules the world , let's keep to them . Their Right thinks they were chosen by God and they will not suffer Hellfire for anything they have done . Their Left thinks they invented the Hellfire , you know that AGM-114 thing , and they will give it to anyone whether that anyone "deserves" it or not .

and pray , what makes America unique ? That they respect the other ? America is , essentially , just a bunch of immigrants taking lands they made empty . Their democracy is an accident of history , rebelling to avoid taxes , their "accepted" foreigners on the basis of nobility at first . As a safety valve for the overcrowded Europe . When the French Revolution ran its entirely accustomed route of toppling the former aristocrats to replace with a new kind of aristocrats , America enlarged its acceptance of immigration . This time more of the commoners ; Democracy was supposed to be a way of keeping the new State down with no single authority to harness the undoubted potential to rival Europe in any meaningful way . That it didn't turn out to be that way is certainly not my fault , right ? America could have seen how bright a Light it was in the 1860s , the God's chosen , the paradise on Earth , if London was not utterly scared of Russians and started thinking on what would happen if they totally destroyed the Ottomans . Grabbing all instead of keeping us as a proxy . Then we might have seen much pro-Democracy and Human Rights and Equality the workers in Manchester were . In case Great Britain declared on the "Empire" in 1862 . Or whether it would be immediately swamped by Nationalism and all that ? As the same workers could surely grasp Yankees were building the same damned textile mills and were filling them with Irish immigrants . Or how Russia was always for the North and never the South , you know with each Russian noble with a gazillion serfs and stuff under his boot . Unique , brilliantly unique ? Why , sure . As long as you don't offer a counter . Just as an example , the case of a country invaded by horse bandits after 4 centuries of extremely effective defence against a certain Religion and like immediately changing entire belief systems and the lot ? You know , only because the grandvisier was an avid reader of the Iranian way of governing and immediately accepted that the accident that presented itself could be valuable only if the peoples of Anatolia was given a just rule and not oppressed in the ways they were long oppressed ? See , ı have never had any doubts that America would want to destroy this country down to its every single fiber of being , because we are just the worst imaginable insult to their self identity . Mere Turks who did it before and better before the almighty Americans .

destroying the Republic is the foremost US Foreign Policy goal , through the accident of we being placed in the Middle East . Not insulting Tonga , but if we were Tonga it would have been far less bloody , right ? Oil , Wealth , uneducated masses of Muslims to 5th Columnize against Russia and China , whatever they do it always inevitably boils down to the slur of we surviving the very Great War , which was essentially fought to decide who would have the most of our carcass . Shift to Pasific ? Is a lie ; simply meant to encourage our Arabian overlords to come . No doubts that if we were Tonga , our Arab masters would still come , promising to make 5 star , 7 star resorts and controlling everything and then putting each and everyone of us into leaking fishing boats and sink us . Oh , our Arab masters are all important with their oil wells and billions and billions of petrodollars ; they are intensely encouraged by all those Western "assistants" . To overcome their hate against anything Turkish and work with New Turkey until the time is ripe . And how intoxicating was it for New Turkey itself ? We always hear the US is bankrupt , just like Muslim Brotherhood's Kutb would say the West was spent . You know , to crash down for good , any day . Like since 1960s . It's really possible to see people of New Turkey believing that the world expects Ankara to come and save it .


oh , wait ? Possibility of a fight ? The Shia massing to take Kerkük from the gods of war ? BSS goin' the time honoured method of pointing the finger of 9/11 and the culprits being hidden ? This time by Iran ? After Afghanistan ? Iraq ? Oh , didn't ı already "prove" it was a Kemalist ubercrime , after some beardie under German pay wanted to Kamikaze the Anıtkabir in '98 or something ? Oh , poor Harvey , at least we won't be accused about you , when our time comes . Becoming some US response to the last gasp of the Japanese economic "threat" , limiting the penetration only to Sony , successful beyond belief , as like no critic would say anything against Miramax. Being so a staunch Democrat and unprovably close to "what" now is the POTUS , basically on the basis of discussing who could be "available" . Some serious weight always available to cover up the discrepancies and why now ? Because NBC reported Trump would want 10 000 more nukes , at a time Pentagon fears the people available for that are merely leftovers and they might blow up some nuke depot in some drug binge . See , the fake news company NBC failed to respond to a real news story two months ago and some other opponent of Trump picked it up . Nothing can be linked to the occupant of the Whitey Homey , because Trump , despite bein' filty rich , fears other rich White men and will bide his time and stuff . One can ignore this , as the timings do not "match" and NBC report is just too recent . Or not , as Trump would say something , anything anyhow . Though Harvey wouldn't want to know how many fingers were raised for him , you know , as the motion "Enemy of the enemy" had to be debated . At least hopefully ı won't be reported next time when ı rant about the Oscars . Though , even yours idiotly can not grasp what's so frightful about Turks , we amounting to the perfect nothing in the final analysis and this charade is to go on . And on . Like the Chinese water torture . Where the victim suffers mere drops of water and after a given time welcomes death ...

Spoiler :

water , water ... Yours idiotly returns home , like a week ago and two guys come from the other direction . One of those large scale cards hanging from the neck of one , and hate in the eyes of both . Hate is always common . Return home , aware of nothing . Next day , my older brother is at us for dinner and he mentions as part of small talk that there is an official report that says there is too much aluminium in the water supply of the city of Bursa . Most extensive in the Yıldırım district . Confusing ! Votes extensively A-K-P . Some "specialist" is expected from the US , do people want to prove yours idiotly is falsely accusing the Party , because those under risk are "Muslims" themselves ? Remember me ranting on the white stuff of the tap water . ı ask brother whether that would be of any help against aluminium and he doesn't think so ; he worked for a while in the health department of the Municipality , you know . Yours idiotly checks the web on the next day , only one return matches , the site of a Leftist newspaper . Seems in July they started using wells to support / instead of the dams . Aluminium is actually used in treatment to clear the water if it's muddy and stuff but not in summer months , so it has to come from the wells and nobody like made tests before using it . Hence , the hate in the eyes . But then , it's not me who made it heard , is it ? The Mayor of Bursa , doing a fancy job or something over the whole province at least according to Party propaganda , has now been deemed a Congregation guy . In July or August he wasn't deemed so , so no Aluminium in water = If Leftists had claimed so , the Party would bury them in statistics and call them liars and Congregation accomplices . The Mayor was even given an award by the PM for his good rule to make Bursa financially sparkle ; that ı know from the dozens of billboards that stand all over the throughfares of Bursa . The pictures wil soon disappear . The Mayor was also famous for being one of the only two guys the Turkish media could ever find as the PM's "askerlik arkadaşı" . That's to say they served in the same unit under the compulsory nature of draft in Turkey . A rather big deal in Turkey , with people spending like two years of their early lives , sort of sentimental attachments with so many chances to see the true nature of people under the duress off training and long boring watches and chores . Kinda why a picture of the PM appeared in the media , out of the blue , him in uniform with some dozen guys and not the Mayor . Also kinda why the Last Prime Minister visits the facility where he was a conscript back in the day .

the Mayor's demise is like mysterious , Bursa was the only one in the Big 5 to vote YES in the referandum . While Gökçek of Ankara visibly faltered , despite all his legendary fame for voter fraud . Gökçek will always be remembered in any description of New Turkey . He serves the people by making an hospital for the city , in some inaccessible piece of land . So he demands the woods of an university to make a road . This ODTÜ thing is always an hotbed of the Left , the students naturally rebel , gas bombs , water cannons , allegations of Congregation membership , the whole lot . An University can't fight a Goverment forever , so the deal is a tunnel . To be bored underground , not through the much cheaper way of dig-built-bury . Oh yeah , it becomes a road , because making it a tunnel would not be "prestigious" - some evidence of accepting the demands of the Opposition . The university still agrees and one night , actually in the middle of night , the Municipality arrives . While the students are asleep , everybody remembers the Gezi events / Taksim riots , right ? They are to clear a width of 19 metres . Less than 60 feet , but presumably two-lane roads are 50 feet wide in the US , right ? Oh my , they clear a full 105 meters . Along a stretch of kilometers . Because the trees are gone forever and they will do shops along the road and rent or sell it to people who love New Turkey . See , a deal in the New Turkey is always provisional , non binding unless it's to the benefit of "Muslims" . They regularly start with a mosque , demanding a place of worship as if there isn't already more than enough in the area and enlarge it bit by bit . Istanbul's Asian coast has some woods and it will soon see some digging . Down to 3 kilometers below to look for hot water . Which will then be available to people of Istanbul . Cool ? Sure enough , the very next day an ad appears in the newspapers , that there are those very nice condos right next to the woods . Bah , there are houses in Istanbul sold by the glorious news that they will be next to the biggest airport of the world or something . Though do not assume the condo builders are having 3 kilometer deep wells to sell their stuff . It's most probably some American company selling stuff to " Muslims" and "Muslims" unfortunately failing to invade Iraq and forced out of Kurdish regions by the spat . Oh , why there is always taxpayer money .

so , why Gökçek gets the boot ? Having links to Congregation is a crime , true , but it depends on whom you are . If you are the former Mayor of Istanbul , waiting in the US to organize the fight if Kemalists fall for the trap and and some accident happens to the PM , that your son-in-law is a Congregation member is a sin that you should pay for . If you are the Speaker of the Parliament , that your son-in-law is a Congregation member is merely a lie . Once again , this Speaker is the guy who arranged the Bloody Sunday of 1969 or something when anti-US , anti-6th Fleet demonstrations were attacked by Islamists and spilling the first blood in the "Terror" era of 1970s . "Muslims" love marriage under "Islamist" precepts where the woman knows her place and shuts up or gets spanked . Not in a kinky or something way if you are perverted or something ı mean . Bruises on the face , kicks and screams . To make it harder to report , the Police in Turkey actually do not respond to womens' complaints of husband abuse if they are not made during the working hours , 8 to 5 and like that . Because "Muslims" want a regime of discipline with them on top and everyone below . People would inevitably rebel or something : So , the men are given lower life forms to oppress themselves and remove the sting and stigma of being kicked around . Hence it's a rather visible effort of New Turkey to bring women down and down . There's the mighty Islamist brand within the Party newspapers which has never seen a "pro-woman" intitiative it likes (NGOs of the Party doesn't count , the right to cover the head is the only right women is to have and so on) But then the chief editor of mighty newspaper heard his son-in-law was abusing his daughter again . Don't know the guy , it's possible she was a beloved of him , instead of property now turned over to the son-in-law who didn't know his place and had to be put right where he belonged . The meeting ended badly , the editor was killed , his daughter injured . The son-in-law finally arrested after months of running . That professor on the State TV that attempted to ban pregnant women from leaving the house ? Apparently also known for saying women who work out of home have to satisfy their bosses . If you wanna , you can really take to mean they are wh_res . Didn't actually say that (as it appears) but women come home tired and can not service their husbands , thus failing their primary duty of breeding new generations . No doubt to fight Qatar's wars in the 2040s . Guess what , it turns out the professor has a daughter that works in a major company and why does he fail to make her quit ? Oh , "Muslims" love power and money , Islam of theirs keep them up on top . To score points with the Party wish to decrease smoking , the Party guy who issues Party fatwas said , according to the Leftists at least , those headscarved women who smoke are also wh_res . The insuniation is always there , the Party is the only one with Morals and only those preferred by the Party have values . Told ya America hates the guts of Turkey ? Told ya America always but always love the Party and its New Turkey ? Ever dare to imagine whether they are , you know , related ?
 
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The thing about Trump is he just spouts absolute garbage constantly. There's no coherent grand strategy that can be found in analyzing his speech and determining if what he says is true or not. Almost everything he says and does is based on reactionary image defence and not careful analysis of what's best for the American people.
Since when do politicians genuinely care about American people?
 
The thing about Trump is he just spouts absolute garbage constantly. There's no coherent grand strategy that can be found in analyzing his speech and determining if what he says is true or no.

There is: distraction. And you're falling for it.
 
so , what we have here ? Oh , the Orange Messiah practically declares on Iran and anyone with a counter argument like works in the fake news production ... It's a rite of passage for American politicians in this century after all .

well , only to mark that ı have edited my previous post for one my interminable rants . Though that guy who is now the POTUS is advised very rationally , let me suggest you ...
 
Tillerson calling Trump a moron happened right as he left this very meeting where Trump asked about increasing nukes by 10 times.

This was the reason Tillerson said Trump was an f'ing moron.
 
Don't read news. Read Trump's tweets.
It is said that mainstream news has 50% lies, while Trump has 73% 95% lies. .

Fixed
 
This thread is #FakeNews. Tillerson never called Trump a "moron". My sources have confirmed that he indeed called Trump a f****** moron. Big difference. Sad.

Spoiler :
seriously though, to me it seems like both Tillerson and Maddis are trying to save the world from a nuclear war to the best of their abilities and Trump is actively sabotaging them. Remember his last few tweets about "little rocket man"? the guy is a complete lunatic and I'm growing more concerned every day. genuinely feels to me like he "just wants to see the world burn".
 
So, my concern is less that he's a liar. We all knew that, and have various tolerances for it.

It's that his lie was used to float the idea of restricting freedom of the press. He was tying one to the other. I find that distressing on a whole new level.
 
It's literally a yes/no question. Did he express a desire to see the stockpile increased when shown that graph? And did his interest result in over 9-fold increase from current levels?

It's a yes/no. Did he lie about a comment he made? Or did NBC? Now, if NBC lied, this is a concern (obviously) regarding the trustworthiness they're trying to market. But, if the President lied, I seriously consider this an impeachable offence. He's not merely lying about something he did, he's attacking the First Amendment as part of the strategy. Again, nothing in my second-last paragraph matters to the underlying question.
If you actually want to treat this as an absolutely dichotomous yes or no question then reports of Trump wanting a ten- or ninefold increase in available nuclear weapons are inaccurate. Reports state Trump expressed an interest in increasing the number of available nuclear weapons from the current levels of four thousand to the 1960s’ high of thirty-two thousand. Matching that high would be a sevenfold increase from current levels. No report quotes Trump as saying he wants a “tenfold” increase. The NBC headline stating Trump wants a tenfold increase is qualified in the first sentence as being a “nearly tenfold increase.” (Whether or not a sevenfold increase is “nearly” a tenfold increase is left to the determination of the reader.)

Of course getting caught up in whether a ten-, nine-, or sevenfold increase in nuclear weapons misses the point that it would be highly irresponsible for the US to emphasize nuclear weapons as a military priority. As such, I’m not certain why the truthfulness of these statements is more worthy of discussion than the question of increasing the United States’ nuclear stockpile.

All of which makes one wonder why NBC would choose to talk about a tenfold increase. Saying Trump wanted a (nearly) tenfold increase may make for a good headline, but saying he wanted a tenfold increase isn’t supported by the reporting. Why use specifics like that and instead use more abstract language like saying Trump expressed interest in a massive increase?
 
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All of which makes one wonder why NBC would choose to talk about a tenfold increase. Saying Trump wanted a (nearly) tenfold increase may make for a good headline, but saying he wanted a tenfold increase isn’t supported by the reporting. Why use specifics like that and instead use more abstract language like saying Trump expressed interest in a massive increase?

"wants" fits the chyron better than "expresses interest in"; "tenfold" is more concrete (and more dramatic) than "massive"
 
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