Trump's Rump

[Birdjaguar]

...It would be abuse, in fact it would probably be unlawful. But then again this second impeachment charade was again built on a lie.

Yes it was and the lie was that Trump won the election and that attacking the vote count would change the results. Trump has been the liar and his lie and the resulting action was the basis for the impeachment.

 

[Samson]

Leading House Democrat sues Donald Trump under a post-Civil War law for conspiracy to incite US Capitol riot

Former President Donald Trump and attorney Rudy Giuliani are being accused of conspiring with the far-right groups Proud Boys and Oath Keepers to incite the January 6 insurrection in a civil lawsuit filed Tuesday in federal court by the Democratic chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee that cites a post-Civil War law designed to combat violence and intimidation by the Ku Klux Klan.
The lawsuit, filed by Mississippi Democratic Rep. Bennie Thompson in his personal capacity, is the first civil action filed against the former President related to the attack at the US Capitol and comes days after the Senate acquitted Trump in his impeachment trial.
If it proceeds, it would mean the former President and others would be subject to discovery and depositions, potentially exposing details and evidence that weren't released during the Senate impeachment trial.

Thompson points to Trump's words and tweets in the months leading up to the insurrection to accuse Trump and Giuliani of mobilizing and preparing their supporters for an attack to prevent Congress from certifying the 2020 election results on January 6.
The lawsuit cites a scarcely used federal statute passed after the Civil War that was intended to combat violence from the Ku Klux Klan; it allows civil actions to be brought against people who use "force, intimidation, or threat" to prevent anyone from upholding the duties of their office.
The NAACP is backing the lawsuit and helping to represent Thompson in court.
​

 

[innonimatu]

Turns out I managed to underestimate the stupidity of the democrats. They did bite on McConnell's that bait how stupid can politicians get?

 

[Kyriakos]

I have to agree. If you were set on promoting Trump/having him on daily news, you should keep putting him on trial.
Maybe that is exactly the DNC's plan, though. Less possibility of any leftist getting uppity.

 

[Samson]

Turns out I managed to underestimate the stupidity of the democrats. They did bite on that bait

I do not know what you mean. It sounds like the principle motivation for this is to make trump subject to discovery, and I bet there are some documents he does not want distributed.

 

[innonimatu]

I do not know what you mean. It sounds like the principle motivation for this is to make trump subject to discovery, and I bet there are some documents he does not want distributed.

What, you think Trump is capable of keeping a secret?
This is going to end with judge saying he can shoot is mouth off howsoever he pleases. And then he'll get to accuse his enemies of trying - and failing - to muzzle him. Claim both victimization and victory. Remain the big person politics are all about. More free publicity. It can be milked for months, especially if there are appeals.

The democrats are complete and total idiots.

 

[Samson]

What, you think Trump is capable of keeping a secret?
This is going to end with judge saying he can shoot is mouth off howsoever he pleases. And then he'll get to accuse his enemies of trying - and failing - to muzzle him. Claim both victimization and victory. Remain the big person politics are all about. More free publicity. It can be milked for months, especially if there are appeals.

The democrats are complete and total idiots.

I do not know, and I acknowledge that you may well be right, but I suspect that keeping a secret is one thing that trump has had to do over the years and is vaguely capable of. The question has he done it well, or has he left a digital trail that can be found.

 

[innonimatu]

I do not know, and I acknowledge that you may well be right, but I suspect that keeping a secret is one thing that trump has had to do over the years and is vaguely capable of. The question has he done it well, or has he left a digital trail that can be found.

I've long ago lost track of the number of times some idiot or some joker stated in the media that "this time Trump would be nailed". Wether tazes or saint Mueller's "investigations", or any of the many other things. Probably more jokers than idiots, the people doing this. It's a profitable show for the media. It's a useful distraction for the politicians to feed their "base". And it's also the thing that made and sustained Trump all along, who goes with it.

That people keep falling for it does show that democracy is hard to do when most of the population has been successfully put into "religious mode" concerning politics. It's one big vulnerability of democracy, that people so easily allow themselves to be played.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I've long ago lost track of the number of times some idiot or some joker stated in the media that "this time Trump would be nailed". Wether tazes or saint Mueller's "investigations", or any of the many other things. Probably more jokers than idiots, the people doing this. It's a profitable show for the media. It's a useful distraction for the politicians to feed their "base". And it's also the thing that made and sustained Trump all along, who goes with it.

That people keep falling for it does show that democracy is hard to do when most of the population has been successfully put into "religious mode" concerning politics. It's one big vulnerability of democracy, that people so easily allow themselves to be played.

For 4 years Trump was protected by being president and by cronies he appointed to power. Now that that is no longer the case, he is vulnerable.

 

[innonimatu]

For 4 years Trump was protected by being president and by cronies he appointed to power. Now that that is no longer the case, he is vulnerable.

HE was protected because he was popular - that is all that matters in politics when the fighting gets dirty.
And now that he's out of office he doesn't even suffer the downsides of his actions, or lack of actions. Power wears down those in office.
You think he's more vulnerable now? Good luck with that.

 

[Lexicus]

This is going to end with judge saying he can shoot is mouth off howsoever he pleases. And then he'll get to accuse his enemies of trying - and failing - to muzzle him. Claim both victimization and victory. Remain the big person politics are all about. More free publicity. It can be milked for months, especially if there are appeals.

The best thing about this is that if your prediction turns out to be wrong (note that the standard of proof is much lower in a civil case than a criminal case) you can chalk it up to the courts being corrupt or whatever rather than you just...being wrong.

 

[innonimatu]

The best thing about this is that if your prediction turns out to be wrong (note that the standard of proof is much lower in a civil case than a criminal case) you can chalk it up to the courts being corrupt or whatever rather than you just...being wrong.

And if your hopes turn out to be delusions - again - you'll just complain that Trump appointed the judges?

 

[Birdjaguar]

HE was protected because he was popular - that is all that matters in politics when the fighting gets dirty.
And now that he's out of office he doesn't even suffer the downsides of his actions, or lack of actions. Power wears down those in office.
You think he's more vulnerable now? Good luck with that.

No, you are wrong. He was protected by his appointees to the DOJ and their decisions to obstruct any investigations internal or external to DOJ. Trump and his DOJ did everything they could stop or slow down any efforts investigate. Attorneys working or cases were fired and replaced; Inspector generals were fired. Subpoenas were refused. Trump set up a huge legal apparatus to protect him. State and civil cases had better luck, but trump used his presidential powers to slow them as much as possible. Now that he is out of office, those will proceed. Popularity had nothing to do with it.

• Trump's business has corruption and racketeering investigations (tax and insurance fraud) in NY
• He is personally being sued for defamation
• In GA election tampering
• In NY (and potentially federally) campaign finance violations
• New cases are showing up as we speak.

The fight has moved from politics to courts. Flag waving, gun toting idiots won't protect him.

 

[Lexicus]

And if your hopes turn out to be delusions - again - you'll just complain that Trump appointed the judges?

I've maintained since 2016 that attempts to defeat Trump through process rather than politics were foredoomed. I had no hope for the Russia investigation or the Ukraine impeachment. I said all along that the way to deal with Trump is to beat him in an election, which is indeed what happened.

I also have no need to come up with excuses for the final outcome in this case because I have no strong opinions about how it will turn out. I can await the facts and make a judgment based on them rather than having to defend a prediction made in the absence of all the facts.

 

[innonimatu]

Now that he is out of office, those will proceed. Popularity had nothing to do with it.

• Trump's business has corruption and racketeering investigations (tax and insurance fraud) in NY
• He is personally being sued for defamation
• In GA election tampering
• In NY (and potentially federally) campaign finance violations
• New cases are showing up as we speak.

The fight has moved from politics to courts. Flag waving, gun toting idiots won't protect him.

I was right about st. Mueller's investigation turning out not even a rat. I was right about these impeachments being an exercise in providing more advertisement for Trump. And I will be right in every one of those suits getting thrown out in the end. Wait and see.
And it won't even technically be because of Trump's popularity, though that is what actually shields him from being canned. It's about the processes being without judicial merit. His tax evasion will turn out to be the typical legalized tax evasion done by billionaires. Defamation is virtually impossible to win on in the US (remember Elon Musk slandering some guy as pedophile?). And claims on elections will be found to be politically protected speech. As for campaign finance violations, there are fall guys employed for that, as everyone is doing.

Politics can't be built on wishes and false hopes. But on reality.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I was right about st. Mueller's investigation turning out not even a rat. I was right about these impeachments being an exercise in providing more advertisement for Trump. And I will be right in every one of those suits getting thrown out in the end. Wait and see.
And it won't even technically be because of Trump's popularity, though that is what actually shields him from being canned. It's about the processes being without judicial merit. His tax evasion will turn out to be the typical legalized tax evasion done by billionaires. Defamation is virtually impossible to win on in the US (remember Elon Musk slandering some guy as pedophile?). And claims on elections will be found to be politically protected speech. As for campaign finance violations, there are fall guys employed for that, as everyone is doing.

Politics can't be built on wishes and false hopes. But on reality.

Yes, time will tell. The most likely paths for guilty verdicts are the GA investigations and the NY state investigations. Popularity is no protection from attorneys. NY is not in love with Trump.

Trump escaped, but

A total of thirty-four individuals and three companies were indicted by Mueller's investigators. Eight have pleaded guilty to or been convicted of felonies, including five Trump associates and campaign officials. None of those five convictions "involved a conspiracy between the campaign and Russians"[453] and "Mueller did not charge or suggest charges for [...] whether the Trump campaign worked with the Russians to influence the election".[454] The investigation was, however, more complex. On May 29, 2019, In a press conference, Mueller stated that "If we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that. We did not, however, make a determination as to whether the president did commit a crime... A president cannot be charged with a federal crime while he is in office. That is unconstitutional. Even if the charge is kept under seal and hidden from public view – that too is prohibited."[455]

Dozens of ongoing investigations originally handled by the Special Counsel's office were forwarded to district and state prosecutors, other Department of Justice (DoJ) branches, and other federal agencies.[456] The following (in alphabetical order) were indicted during the Mueller investigation:

• 13 Russians implicated in election interference: Mueller's team indicted thirteen Russian citizens, the Internet Research Agency (IRA), Concord Management and Consulting and Concord Catering with conducting social media campaigns about the U.S. elections.[457] Twelve of the Russian defendants, who were alleged to be members of the Russian GRU cyber espionage group known as Fancy Bear, were charged in June 2018 with hacking and leaking DNC emails.[162] The other Russian indicted, who was not a direct employee of Fancy Bear, was Russian business tycoon Yevgeny Prigozhin, who was alleged to have served as the financier for the organization.[458] The US government dropped all charges against Concord Management and Consulting and Concord Catering in March 2020.[445] In November 2019, Time magazine reported that it was "unlikely that any of the Russians will ever face a trial in the United States, but the charges make it harder for them to travel overseas".[459]
• Maria Butina, who had claimed to be a Russian gun activist, was investigated by the Special Counsel investigators and then prosecuted by the National Security Law Unit. She was imprisoned for espionage after entering a guilty plea.[460][461]
• Michael Cohen, Trump's personal lawyer, pled guilty to making hush payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal in violation of campaign finance laws, and was convicted for several unrelated counts of bank and tax fraud.[462][463]
• Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, who had been appointed as National Security Advisor by the incoming Trump administration, was dismissed from his position and later pled guilty to making false statements to FBI investigators about his conversations with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the presidential transition.[464][465]
• Konstantin Kilimnik, Manafort's business partner in Ukraine, was indicted for witness tampering at the behest of Manafort;[466] Kilimnik is suspected of working for Russian intelligence.[467]
• Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign chairman was found guilty on eight felony counts of tax evasion and bank fraud,[468] pursuant to his earlier lobbying activities for the Party of Regions of former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovich.[469][470] He later pled guilty to conspiracy to defraud and obstruction of justice;[471][472] in total, he was sentenced to over seven years in jail[473] in February 2018.
• George Papadopoulos, Trump campaign adviser, was convicted for making false statements to the FBI.[345]
• Roger Stone, a longtime Trump advisor who had met with a Russian person offering to sell derogatory financial information about Hillary Clinton,[474] was indicted on seven charges of lying to Congress and witness tampering. He pled not guilty.[475] The jury subsequently found him guilty on all seven counts

 

[Lexicus]

though that is what actually shields him from being canned.

Maybe this is the disconnect. Trump is a private citizen, were you under impression he still held public office?

 

[uppi]

I've maintained since 2016 that attempts to defeat Trump through process rather than politics were foredoomed. I had no hope for the Russia investigation or the Ukraine impeachment. I said all along that the way to deal with Trump is to beat him in an election, which is indeed what happened.

And even if Trump had been defeated through process, it would have been a hollow victory: The next guy might just come along with the same politics but slightly more attention to proper process. Ultimately, Trumpism needs to be ended through politics, anyway.

 

[Zkribbler]

The next guy might just come along with the same politics ...

Trump has policies? Very few IMHO: corporations shouldn't be taxed; pollution is good for you; health care is bad for you; immigrants must be deported.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I think it was worth attempting to divide the Republicans. The central task facing us now is splitting the Trump core faithful off from some of the establishment types; it's the only way we might avoid a full-scale civil war at this point.

Trump just unloaded on McConnell.

The fracturing might really happen.

The Lincoln Project is also shattering into the wind from the pedophile stuff.