TT01: Beating Demigod

[Bucephalus]

Ok, things are not as bad as they might have been; however, there is a big lesson to be learned here. When we discussed upgrading to Cannon, or sticking with Trebs, it wasn't mentioned that we still have mostly Cats.

This quote is from my last turnset:

All Cats are returning to Rax towns for upgrade to Trebs.

And this two sets later:

It would certainly help if we upgraded those Cats - I cannot believe they have not been upgraded yet, twenty turns after getting Engineering.

The lesson is 'be prepared' - Cats do not cut the mustard against fortified Muskets in cities.

Overseer: You were correct in putting the squeeze on Reykjavic - it has their Salt supply, and that is clearly where our greatest offensive power was concentrated.

Beseiging Copenhagen was probably spreading your forces a little thinly; your first instinct - to deal with attacking units first - was the correct one, IMO. And Holward would have fallen had you had one more offensive unit to spare, and that would have hurt them - it has their Ivory.

As it is, things may get slightly worse before it gets better; we will lose our Gems to pillaging, even if we don't lose Zwolle, which is by no means certain.

No real worries, though; I can turn this around in a few turns, I think.


It would be really convenient for to play this set today, if at all possible, so I'd appreciate any comments to be made asap.


BTW, how useless are those Yanks? See what happens when the Brits aren't there to hold their hand?

 

[templar_x]

just checked the file...

i think cav – muskets on flat land was bad RNG luck, the odds are fair enough and will show this soon

overseer, i do not think that your playing was that bad.
that was a good call on the movement of New Breda to the hill for +1 food

the real worry in my eyes was the placement of our troops. they were not ready for any action, neither defensively nor offensively. some examples of what i see from the file:
- two knights stand in Den Helder, where from they cannot get anywhere
- there is a big number of cats in Groningen, which has a flip risk but no barracks for upgrade and no front
- 2 settlers and no troops sit in Enschede when there are Ragnar´s drakars and zerks around
etc

which is the real reason why you couldn´t take Holwerd on counterattack (and it may be hard even in the next turn, for there are no units around)

arty should be at Reykjavik in my eyes, where we have to fight vet musket on hill. losses there will be very high with those troops we have around
and moving in cats won´t help a bit. they should stay off front or on defense only until we have the funds to upgrade them
Alesund will be hard or impossible to take with those troops there, too

since the Vikes have strong attacking units, what i would have played differently is, that i would have liked to try “remove or declare” and attack their units in the open
there must have been a good chance for this when they returned from Grand River (i had already pondered this when they were on their way to the Iro north, but we had only minimal numbers of troops then. cannot say if there was a chance in your turns but think i remember you mentioned Vike troops within our borders)

Buce, you´re up? have a look on Lauwersoog as it is going to riot, some builds should be changed with respect to the new war situation, imo
tides will be turning against Ragnar very soon. even if Zwolle falls, this will cost him most of his attacking forces in our next turn.

i am pretty sure we will lose at least one more town (Overseer, did you see Viking troops already return from the very north or are there still 2-movers up there?)
thus, the next player has to handle the WW (lost WH) issue NOW. better raise the slider immediately than be sorry, would be my call.

 

[Bucephalus]

the next player has to handle the WW (lost WH) issue NOW. better raise the slider immediately than be sorry, would be my call.

I'm not sure what you mean by lost WH - we have just gained it from Ragnor's declaration.

However, upping the slider is necessary because we will lose our Gems next turn.

 

[templar_x]

@ Buce - sure, dunno what made me think this. good luck with your counter-attacks!

 

[Bucephalus]

Not much to be done, but I do have some unused units - move E Knights to the border at Holwerd. This will give them their best opportunity for leader fishing. Since I intend to temporarily retreat from Copenhagen, I move four vet Cavs to the jungle outside Reykjavic, which I intend to take despite it's hill defences. Wake workers at Tempremiere - we're going to need to re-connect the Gems at Zwolle.
Raise slider to 20%. Switch a couple of builds to Cavs; mm Pasagarde for 5 turn Cavs. I'm concerned by the Caravel off our coast (I assume it has a Zerk aboard) but there's nothing I can do but trust the Gods.

The sun is shining here in England - it is a good day to die.

Enter:

Zwolle falls as expected, as does New Leiden, but in doing so Ragnor exposes two damaged Knights, and several unaccompanied Zerks.

560AD:

Move Cats from Groningen to Rotterdam, the nearest Rax town. Retreat Cats from Copenhagen for the same purpose - I will return.

Trebs take off a couple of hp's at R'vik, exposing at least three muskets; lose one Cav out of three, exposing another defender, which the Mace Army despatches with minor damage; finish off red-lined musket with E Mace (no promotion), and raze R'vik, sinking the Caravel that I was worried about in the process - don't you just love the AI generals?

Liberate Holwerd for the loss of one Cav; begin mopping up exposed Zerks (seven of); re-take New Leiden, killing two Knights; two Elite promotions. I'm pleased to see that - rather unusually - the AI actually took Zwolle without pillaging first. Makes it a lot easier to get the Gems on-line again.

What I'm planning to do is marshall our forces into a two pronged attack, combining the forces from Copenhagen and Holwerd to re-take Zwolle, then on to Oslo and Copenhagen, and using the stack (currently healing) that took R'vik to push into the core from the South.

Attend to mm; a whole bunch of cities grew this turn, and I've mm'ed for beakers - I'm running zero science but we'll still have Physics in 12.

IBT:

Zerks pour out of Zwolle, and kill SM guarding E Mace, then the Mace..

France completes Cops.

570AD:

begin upgrading Cats. New Zwolle founded on the ruins of R'vik.
Two Zerks killed. Mainly just troop redeployment. more growth, Physics now in 10.

IBT:

Horrible RNG luck sees a damaged reg AC defeat a healthy Knight to take Harlingen; Ragnor then makes a typical AI move by sending a Mace and two Zerks to it - leader fodder if ever I saw it. Two Jerks suicide on a SM fortified on a mountain.

More Caravels moving about off the coast; they make me nervous, I simply cannot cover everything.

580AD:

Re-take Harlingen, killing a Mace, two Zerks and an AC for no losses.
Everything healed at New Zwolle, begin advance into Viking territory; fog busting reveals Bergen - size six, but surrounded by jungle, I'm going to have to take it without Arty. Red-line galley threatening ttdemigodgrad.

Everything ready to re-take Zwolle next turn.

Another round of mm, and we now have Physics in 7.

Hell, this is slow going - 2.5 hrs for three turns - time for a caffeine injection.....

IBT:

Caravel refuses to use it's (presumed) Zerk passenger on our MA city - good job, too, it is barely defended....... did I mention about the importance of being prepared?

galley drops off Jerk - does the AI realize they have amphibious attack ability?

590AD:

Bergen is defended by reg Muskets only, with no defensive bonus, so I send in the Mace and Sword Armies - Bergen razed.

Move ten Cannon outside Copenhagen - I'm smelling blood, now.

Re-take Zwolle, and now we have our Gems back; No losses to kill a single Musket defending. I sense Ragnor has nothing left to offer, other than the annoying presence of that Caravel near our core, which may take an undefended Middleburg next IBT.

Switch spare Cavs to Copenhagen front.
Drop slider back to 10%

IBT:

Ragnor lands two Zerks and an AC next to Persoplis - I may have sacrifice another city in order to protect it.

600AD:

Hmm... if I can raze Stockholm this turn, the Viling cultural borders will shrink far enough for me to get a couple of Cavs back to attack the stack near Persopolis..... Mace Army and a Cav do the business against two Muskets. First Cav takes out the AC - now they can only reach Persoplis - the second frustratingly loses to a Zerk.

Cannons show their usefulness, red-lining everything in Copenhagen; Copenhagen razed for no losses.

I'm going to take a break here, I've been at it for four and a half hours, and I need to eat. I should be able to continue later.

Ragnor has only two core cities left now - Trondheim (corrected from 'Stockholm') and Oslo - and Oslo should go before I'm done; logistics will probably prevent me getting to Stockholm, so sharpen your Sword, DW.

The only thing that may save his hide is if he'll play ball with a good peace deal; to be honest, it would be in our interests, I think - our forces are stretched incredibly thin, and I'm playing this by the skin of my teeth - a chance to re-group would do us no harm. Any thoughts on that, guys?

 

[DWetzel]

Oh, sure, NOW you want to wuss out and make peace.

If you can post the save, I'm here to look at it. From your description they are on the run more than we are--if we have enough $ to cash-rush a few units, I think we could press on. If we can push them off the island (I'd even settle for taking out their core and leaving them with a couple former Iro cities), I'd say we can make peace, as we'll need the time to build a navy (and rebuild everything else).

 

[Bucephalus]

Oh, sure, NOW you want to wuss out and make peace.

Only if it suits our purpose, and only once I've razed Oslo.

If you can post the save, I'm here to look at it. From your description they are on the run more than we are--if we have enough $ to cash-rush a few units, I think we could press on. If we can push them off the island (I'd even settle for taking out their core and leaving them with a couple former Iro cities), I'd say we can make peace, as we'll need the time to build a navy (and rebuild everything else).

Oh they are on the run alright; the only limiting factor is time - our forces are stretched, and their cities are widely spread, now.

My point is that we have more to gain by an advantageous peace, than we do running down a bunch of crappy little towns - trust me, Ragnor will never be a threat to us again.

Edit: I seem to be unable to upload the save atm, I'll try again after I've eaten.

 

[DWetzel]

They do still have the capital, Trondheim, yes?

 

[Bucephalus]

They do still have the capital, Trondheim, yes?

Sorry, when I said 'Stockholm', I meant 'Trondheim' - I razed Stockholm a couple of turns back.

Edit: I've corrected the post in question.

 

[DWetzel]

Ah. That makes much more sense then.

Short answer: it's your call. Personally, I'd very much like to see those two towns taken off the map before we make peace--and, ideally, Mauch Chunk as well. There's some flood plains there that are calling "science farm" to me.

 

[Bucephalus]

Ah. That makes much more sense then.

Short answer: it's your call. Personally, I'd very much like to see those two towns taken off the map before we make peace--and, ideally, Mauch Chunk as well. There's some flood plains there that are calling "science farm" to me.

That's cool with me - any deal on the table now (and in fact Ragnor is not talking, anyway) will still be there when I've finished.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Chondote showed that the Vikings will do amphib attacks if the town is poorly defended or completely undefended. I didn't realize that they had anything to grab it with. I did learn a lesson there, and a few others, that the AI is always aware of your weak spots. At levels like this, the AI has the units to hurt you there. I knew they were getting frisky and I still wasn't ready. Fortunately, they didn't hurt us that bad. One other lesson. Quick hits dont work at this level, bring artillery. Rushing with Cavalry does not work, unless you have tons and are ready to lose a bunch. Anyway, hopefully the Viking shenanigans will prove their quick undoing. If peace seems wise, do it, we know it is only temporary.

 

[Bucephalus]

Nah, you're being too hard on yourself, mate; lack of preparation was down to us all - I think you are doing fine for a DG virgin.

 

[templar_x]

galley drops of Jerk - does the AI realize they have amphibious attack ability?

The only thing that may save his hide is if he'll play ball with a good peace deal; to be honest, it would be in our interests, I think - our forces are stretched incredibly thin, and I'm playing this by the skin of my teeth - a chance to re-group would do us no harm. Any thoughts on that, guys?

we should call them berJerks from now on

from what you say i feel that ragnar has nothing really left to throw against us. so i´d say, let´s drive him off the continent and pause with a good deal then until we can set up our naval invasion force.

 

[DWetzel]

Nah, you're being too hard on yourself, mate; lack of preparation was down to us all - I think you are doing fine for a DG virgin.

Word! )))

 

[Bucephalus]

England and America are two countries separated by the same language

Sorry, DW; you'll have to explain that one......

 

[DWetzel]

I was just agreeing with you.

 

[TheOverseer714]

American slang. Word-generally enthusiastic agreement. Love the language differences, you'd think they are different languages at times.

 

[Bucephalus]

Word! )))

American slang. Word-generally enthusiastic agreement. Love the language differences, you'd think they are different languages at times.

Words are the tools of my trade, and I have a voracious appetite for new ones, so thanks for that.

Any idea of the etymology?

I was unable to get any further with the game last night - my daughter had a disturbed night - but I should get time later today.

 

[templar_x]

this trans-atlantic word thing became very funny

overseer, i somehow already foresaw that Buce will have trouble with this. so i looked for a good seat and waited for the show "first row". there it came.

whenever someone gives a "word"-agreement it always remembers me to that hillarious scene in one of the lethal weapon movies when his son says that to Danny Glover. it is really obvious that he has no idea of how to take it. just like Buce now.