Union Thugs Harass Local Business

[aelf]

Wrong. This has nothing to do with Gary's own trials and tribulations. He could be dealing with his own problems with almost heroic perseverance and yet be completely and willfully clueless about the miseries of other groups of people. In such a case, one would bring up the subject of privilege not to allege that his life is necessarily better than the lives of those groups of people in every way, but to say that he enjoys certain socially-reinforced advantages not enjoyed by them that make him unaware of or inclined to ignore their struggles.

In fact, people who are self-made or have pulled through difficult times are also often those who are the most egotistical and callous. They feel that they had overcome some great difficulty and therefore all others who are not able to overcome great difficulties, whatever they may be, need to learn from them.

 

[Gary Childress]

I looked it up in the dictionary, and it turns out definition of "privilege" is not "everything is perfect".

It turns out the definition is:


So that's not really incompatible with facing serious life-crud in other area.

Maybe I am privileged in the sense that I am white. I assume the same applies to you in that case Traitorfish. May I ask, other than attending college (something many other people don't have the "privilege" of doing), what other sorts of things do you do? What does you attending college accomplish to make the world a better place?

@Aelf: Same question to you Aelf. What do you do to make the world a better place. People like me who are "privileged" would like a few examples so we can follow suit.

 

[Borachio]

How does this one look (sent via whitehouse.gov)?

I think that's a very nice letter. Why don't you send it? Or did you send it?

 

[Gary Childress]

I think that's a very nice letter. Why don't you send it? Or did you send it?

I did. I sent it via email.

EIDT: Here is the link in case others want to write something (or even copy what I wrote and simply substitute your name for mine) http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments

 

[Flying Pig]

I totally agree with that second point, but I maintain that it's tactless - if nothing else - to remind somebody of the advantages that they have in life when they're feeling downtrodden. There's an old saying that there's no point arguing with a hungry man - if he says he's hungry, he is.

 

[aelf]

Who's downtrodden?

 

[Borachio]

Do you mean "Who's feeling downtrodden?"

 

[Gary Childress]

OK. Enough is enough. I eat well living with my parents all my life. I have a nice computer and games to keep me occupied. Other people have it much, much worse and I really don't care to become a "poster child" for the mentally ill. Let's just drop it.

I wrote a letter to whitehouse.gov. Maybe if enough people write letters some of them will get through and something will be done about the mess that is this world we live in. I saw Kaitzilla's post back on page 3 with the video about "Civil Forfeiture" and it is pretty depressing to watch. I don't know who to blame, police officers or those making the laws or what. But it is pretty sad to watch.

 

[downtown]

They've been sending these to professional sports teams too. I am shocked with how thin-skinned some of these union leaders are. Sounds like they may want to spend some of their dues on a better PR guy.

 

[Farm Boy]

Calling attention to somebody's 'privilege', however, is literally the same thing as saying 'man up, you could have it worse'. Not particularly civil.

Good lord that puts it in some perspective. It's the bootstraps schtick reskinned with the same tired old textures.

 

[caketastydelish]

I looked it up in the dictionary, and it turns out definition of "privilege" is not "everything is perfect".

It turns out the definition is:


So that's not really incompatible with facing serious life-crud in other area.

So? Aelf is also white and male only presumably without that serious disability, so him calling out Gary on his smug 'privilege' is at the very least a bit ironic, don't you think?

 

[aelf]

Good lord that puts it in some perspective. It's the bootstraps schtick reskinned with the same tired old textures.

Nope.

So? Aelf is also white and male only presumably without that serious disability, so him calling out Gary on his smug 'privilege' is at the very least a bit ironic, don't you think?

You know so little. Besides, there's nothing ironic about white people talking about privilege like it matters, no more than it is ironic for people with Aspergers to talk about other people having Aspergers.

 

[Farm Boy]

Nope.

Yeap.

This is fun!

 

[Phrossack]

Because the only way progress will ever happen will be if Singaporeans insult and ceaselessly belittle foreigners on the internet.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Aelf's conduct is amiss of some strategic finesse, that is for sure.
But at least - however that happened - he apparently cares. That is still worth something in my book.

 

[Traitorfish]

So? Aelf is also white and male only presumably without that serious disability, so him calling out Gary on his smug 'privilege' is at the very least a bit ironic, don't you think?

Aelf isn't white. (He's Singaporean Chinese, iirc?)

But, no, I don't see why the relative privilege Aelf might enjoy are relevant. To call attention to somebody's privilege isn't to condemn them, it's to ask that they engage in self-reflection. I imagine that this is something Gary already does in other areas of his life, and all Aelf is doing, for all his strident tone, is asking that he apply the habits of a lifetime to this particular issue.

I totally agree with that second point, but I maintain that it's tactless - if nothing else - to remind somebody of the advantages that they have in life when they're feeling downtrodden. There's an old saying that there's no point arguing with a hungry man - if he says he's hungry, he is.

You're reversing the order of the conversation, though. At no point did Gary say "man, I have it bad" and Aelf reply "stop complaining, there are starving children in Saskatchewan". What happened is that Aelf called attention to the privilege which enabled Gary to maintain his ambivalence about police brutality, and Caketastydelish brought up Gary's hardships (a complete non sequitur, in context). Gary himself hasn't uttered a word on the matter, except to ask for the tangent to be abandoned.

 

[jackelgull]

And I would do honor his wishes. As for me, I am acutely aware that I am privileged, I'm just unsure of what obligations that puts on me.

 

[Zelig]

The Police Are the People

This is a huge disconnect, and we let it happen. The problem isn’t with the NYPD, the problem is with the blanket total support we give our military when it fights in Afghanistan and Iraq. The price of placing zero value on the lives of the people of these countries is that our lives in turn become worthless. What goes around comes around. You reap what you sow. There are dozens of adages and fables that explain this phenomenon. The lives of the people of the foreign countries are worth exactly as much as ours. We overlooked the behavior of American soldiers in these countries. Now the cops want to know why we treat them differently.

And they’re right to ask. Why? If the army can arbitrarily kill thousands in Iraq, why can’t they kill a few people in Staten Island, Missouri, or Ohio? You “support the troops” why don’t you support us, they ask.

 

[aelf]

Yeap.

This is fun!

Try reading the page.

Because the only way progress will ever happen will be if Singaporeans insult and ceaselessly belittle foreigners on the internet.

That could be one way, sure. I think it beats keeping quiet and being butthurt at any mention that your world and society aren't perfect.

 

[Flying Pig]

Aelf isn't white. (He's Singaporean Chinese, iirc?)

But, no, I don't see why the relative privilege Aelf might enjoy are relevant. To call attention to somebody's privilege isn't to condemn them, it's to ask that they engage in self-reflection. I imagine that this is something Gary already does in other areas of his life, and all Aelf is doing, for all his strident tone, is asking that he apply the habits of a lifetime to this particular issue.


You're reversing the order of the conversation, though. At no point did Gary say "man, I have it bad" and Aelf reply "stop complaining, there are starving children in Saskatchewan". What happened is that Aelf called attention to the privilege which enabled Gary to maintain his ambivalence about police brutality, and Caketastydelish brought up Gary's hardships (a complete non sequitur, in context). Gary himself hasn't uttered a word on the matter, except to ask for the tangent to be abandoned.

I think the strident tone is what I take issue with. You've phrased it as quite a reasonable conversation, which it may be once you strip out the actual expression and get to the bare bones of meaning exchanged. I'd entirely support you if the conversation had actually been 'I don't understand why police brutality is such a problem', which met with a response 'it would probably look different if you weren't white and lived in an area where you saw it more often'. We're usually very civil around here; that doesn't sit well with being aggressive to people, particularly not when you've just found out that they're having a difficult time.

And I would do honor his wishes. As for me, I am acutely aware that I am privileged, I'm just unsure of what obligations that puts on me.

I suppose it gives us the obligation to realise that we don't really know what it's like to be on the sharp end of these things, and to think carefully before we say 'it's not that bad, you people don't know what you're talking about'. I've seen some people (mostly the facebook like-and-share brigade) arguing that someone who is privileged can never correct someone who is not about whether they're marginalised - so statements of the manner 'black people aren't as badly downtrodden as you think' are always wrong when they come from a white person to a black person. That one seems more like a clever debating tactic than actual sense to me.