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[GS] Unique Unit Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Kmart_Elvis, Jul 20, 2019.

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  1. KayAU

    KayAU King

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
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    I will reiterate, I think it is silly to dock points from units like the Longship or Pitati Archer for not being as great without the civ or leader abilities which goes with them. I don't care how good the units would be in the hands of civs for which they were not designed. Context and synergies matter. The choice to attach some abilities to the entire promotion class rather than just the specific UUs, should be considered a clear positive, as it means these units will retain much of their usefulness throughout the game, and be a much better investment overall. Imagine if, for example, the Cree had a civ ability which gave all Recon units full XP from fighting barbarians. I would argue that this should earn the Okihtcitaw a much higher position on the list, because while the unit itself is technically not any different, it is suddenly a much more useful unit for the Cree, which is the civ actually wielding it.

    Anyway, on to the voting:

    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 14
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    De Zeven Provinciën (Netherlands) - 6 (9 - 3) I'm sorry to pick the same unit again, but it's getting harder to find something truly bad. This ship is good, it is just a slightly boring desing, and I don't think it is going to be very impactful.
    Digger (Australia) - 22
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 27
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 27
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 27
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 27
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 29
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 30
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 17
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 24
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 30 (29 + 1) This is without a doubt one of the best units in the game. It's mobile, relatively inexpensive, available right from the start, and strong enough to devastate anything else available in the earliest part of the game.
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 7
     
  2. Hogimus

    Hogimus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2019
    Messages:
    72
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 14
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    De Zeven Provinciën (Netherlands) - 6
    Digger (Australia) - 22
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 27
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 27
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 27
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 27
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 29
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 30
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 14 (17-3=14) I agree that a unique units should be judged in the context of their Civs abilities because the good ones synergize well with their Civ abilities. That being said, as a naval unit, it is very limited in value in this game. As others have pointed out, most cities being inland greatly reduces the value of all of the unique naval units. In fact, I’m positive the reason so many are still around is because they are popular, not useful. Of the naval units left, the Longship is the only one that does not have the ability to bombard, which makes naval units a little bit more useful.
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 24
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31 (30+1) Definitely one of the best units. It singlehandedly places Sumeria in the top tier of most Civ rankings. As I mentioned above, it benefits from synergy with Epic Quests, and it is debatably the best unit for an early rush. Think about it: Sumeria’s abilities are pretty lukewarm. This unit makes it one of the best Civs.
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 7
     
  3. Mr. Shadows

    Mr. Shadows Nomad of the time streams

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2015
    Messages:
    646
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Incheon, R.O.K.
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 14
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    De Zeven Provinciën (Netherlands) - Eliminated (3-3=0) It's a good ship but ultimately only a ship, and the land is much more important than the water. The bombard is great but only works on coastal cities. This unit doesn't have a big impact on how I play the Netherlands and I'm not sure it does that much to help them win.
    Digger (Australia) - 22
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 27
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 27
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 27
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 27
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 29
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 30
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 14
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 24
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 8 (7+1=8) These guys win prizes in a way that no naval unit can. The Digger is late, the Hypaspist is slow (why is the Ngao Mbeba gone and the Hypaspist at +3?) but these guys come on-line early and are a real weapon until ballistics. They stay viable after that, just not for taking cities. That's a huge window of opportunity. These will go sooner rather than later but they're higher quality (imho) than a number of the units that are still left.
     
  4. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,369
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 14
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    Digger (Australia) - 22
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28(27+1) Early builders worth too much. Even if you don't meet nearby neighbor's capital, capturing some scouts/city state units is also very very useful.
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 27
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24(27-3) Very good unit 3 years ago for not requiring resource, but now it also needs resource. Heal per turn over normal knights does not bring much advantage, since knights themselves are not popular units, and 5 heal is inferior compared with plundering.
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 27
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 29
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 30
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 14
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 24
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 8
     
  5. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer King

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    780
    Gender:
    Male
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 14
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    Digger (Australia) - 22
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 27
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 28 (27 + 1) Another upvote for me for what is, in my opinion, definitely the best Naval Unit in the game (and the Longwhip and Jong are both great as well, as was the now-forsaken Zeven Provencien) but also simply the strongest-for-its-era unit the game has yet allowed.
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 29
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 30
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 14
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 24
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 5 (8 - 3) Only good units left, and this is definitely the least of them remaining.
     
  6. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,905
    First off, of course context matters, and of course a unit that synergizes with the civ is a better unit... if those things are worth doing in the first place. Also, this is not a tier list. We are using things like "its unique" and "its cool" to determine what to upvote or downvote, so "its not that special when the rest of the civ also has these bonuses, not just the unit" is perfectly reasonable.

    At the end of the day, anyone can use any reason they like to vote, as long as it isn't "I feel like it". And the only reason that shouldn't be allowed is because it is boring. So let other people vote in peace please.

    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 14
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    Digger (Australia) - 22
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 27
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 28
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 29
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 30
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 14
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21 (24-3) Would get eaten alive if playing against a human opponent and never get to farm xp to become the beasts they are vs the AI
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 6 (5+1) Actually changes how combat works, which is cool and also could actually catch even an intelligent opponent off-guard
     
    679x and Mr. Shadows like this.
  7. Weraptor

    Weraptor King

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages:
    693
    Gender:
    Male
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 14
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    Digger (Australia) - 22
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 27
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 28
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 29
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 30 - 3 = 27 Later, more expensive and fragile than the Legion, shouldn't really be +3 higher than it. You also can't chop into Legion with their builder charge.
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 14
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 6 + 1 = 7 They can stay competetive long after you rush them if you have good faith-economy thanks to the corps ability, which isn't a hard thing to do really seeing as you can get so much faith not only from Poland, but also from pillaging and conquest. I find it refreshing to have more flexibility in the tech-tree as well.
     
  8. Hammurabbit

    Hammurabbit Warlord

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Messages:
    179
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 14
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    Digger (Australia) - 22
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 27
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 28
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30 = 29 + 1, Archers are anyway the backbone of early armies, so why not a better one, that's dirt cheap
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 27
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 11 = 14 - 3, Early pillaging of coast tiles doesn't yield much in my experience.
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 7
     
  9. Doclea

    Doclea Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Gender:
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    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 11 (14-3) And this is the only one representing Maghreb, Mamluks are former slaves and mercs of different origin(they also had some south slavs tho) and Egypt aint part of that region. Well now it is not easy to take points off but privateers are not my game, also they promote to subs which take valuable resource and are kinda meh, frigattes are much more powerfull and usefull and i tend to go with them.
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    Digger (Australia) - 22
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28 (27+1) Only unique unit that kind of represents south slavs tho hehe, but in a worst way if your looking it historically, at least it is strong and versatile in game.
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 28
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 27
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 11
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 7
     
  10. Leucarum

    Leucarum Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,116
    Gender:
    Male
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 11
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    Digger (Australia) - 23 (22+1) As others had pointed out the lack of oil cost and upgradeability is very nice...
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 28
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 27
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 8 (11-3) Melee naval is not the best you could have even though I like these guys' pillaging. There may be worse units left but a lot of the units I am less keen on are in civs I barely/haven't used so I don't feel as confident making a judgement call for Ottoman/Polish/Russian UUs.
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 7

    Posted slightly earlier today because work schedule.
     
  11. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
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    Gender:
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    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI, USA
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 11
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 11 (14-3) It just doesn't keep up with the competition, for me. It's not bad, but it's not a match for the remaining units.
    Digger (Australia) - 23
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 28
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 27
    Varu (India) - 26 (25+1) This unit is a powerful force that ensures India can be a military power in it's time, if they want to.
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 8
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 7

    I recognize that other people are judging differently than I am by considering other benefits. That's perfectly fine. That said, for me personally it doesn't make sense, and so I will continue to vote with my own standards (unless it becomes a rule to do it one way or the other). For me, it's ultimately a matter of what would the civ have as an alternative. For Nubia, their UA would mean that archers are super cheap, but because of the Unique Units prod cost increase, they aren't really seeing that benefit (or they are sacrificing for this unit). That doesn't make it bad (I still say Top 3), but it's a knock. Likewise with Norway, their Longship does have these bonuses, sure. But so would any other unit they build. It's not a feature of the Longship. The Longship can go in ocean water, but so could a Norwegian Galley. It could raid coasts, but so could a galley. It has an extra movement point in coastal water, and an extra 5 combat strength. As far as I can tell, that's it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    Eagle Pursuit and Atlas627 like this.
  12. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Gender:
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    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 11
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 8 (11-3) --- I was a huge fan of this unit because I could summon corps with faith, surround a city, and attack the walls with a battering ram. If I needed even more damage I could use the move after attack ability, retreat a unit that had already damaged the walls, and have a fresh unit (or two or three) attack. Now, not so much so.
    Digger (Australia) - 24 (23+1) --- Lack of oil requirement is nice.

    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 27
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 28
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 27
    Varu (India) - 26
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 8
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 7
     
  13. Loderingo

    Loderingo Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    291
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southern England
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 11
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    Digger (Australia) - 23
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 28 (27+1) - A strong unit. Works well with the hypaspist and gives great general points.
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 25 (28-3) - If we all agree that synergy with the wider civ is important then this needs to be marked down. It is a poor fit for Brazil which is neither a military civ or naturally a naval civ (usually starts inland in the jungle). Building this could even impede a culture victory due to closed borders. Wasted on Pedro and would be a better fit for Vicky or the Dutch.
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 12
    Toa (Maori) - 27
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 8
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 7
     
  14. Icicle

    Icicle Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Messages:
    529
    After thinking about it, I think that judging a unit based on how it will actually have an effect in the game meaning you include leader bonuses, expected policy cards etc., makes the most sense. It's an interesting discussion though and I think voting both ways is totally valid. Just a difference of opinion which is fine.

    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 11
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    Digger (Australia) - 24 (23+1) I've already stated the reasons, so here's a short clip of the Digger's Requiem.
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 28
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 25
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 9 (12-3) These used to be so good when you got a free swarm of them. Now? Meh.
    Toa (Maori) - 27
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 8
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 7
     
  15. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,453
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 8 (11-3) Not a bad unit, but too situational to stick around much longer.
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 14
    Digger (Australia) - 24
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 28
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 25
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 9
    Toa (Maori) - 27
    Varu (India) - 25
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 9 (8+1) Still one of my favorite units, get all the goody huts, meet everyone early, etc.
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 7
     
  16. BenitoChavez

    BenitoChavez Whispering Walrus

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Alpha Quadrant
    Fixed scores for the Cossack, Varu, and Digger as some votes were missed. I think everything should be up to date.

    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 8
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 8
    Digger (Australia) - 25
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 28
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 25
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 9
    Toa (Maori) - 28 = 27 + 1. Legion has +4 combat strength on the Toa but Toa gives -5 combat strength to adjacent enemy units. That is a net +1 for the Toa compared to the Legion. But that -5 also applies when your other units attack or defend against the enemy units so your archers, horsemen, etc are all relatively better as well. Plus the Toa doesn't cost iron unlike the legion. The -5 doesn't apply to cities (I don't think) or ranged units two tiles away so in those cases the legion is better. Also the Toa comes a bit later. Overall I like the Toa more.
    Varu (India) - 26
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 9
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 4 = 7 - 3. It's strong for its era but you have to hard build them and they upgrade to tanks instead of cuirassiers so by the time the industrial era rolls around I wish I'd rather built knights instead.
     
  17. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 5 (8-3) If the knock against longships is that there isn't enough on the coast to raid, why aren't these guys getting voted down more often? That's their biggest advantage over regular privateers, but unlike longships you won't be getting science and culture nor will you have early access to exploring the oceans.
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 8
    Digger (Australia) - 25
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 28
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 25
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 9
    Toa (Maori) - 28
    Varu (India) - 26
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 10 (9+1) You can't find anything on the coast to raid in the entire time it takes to go from the sailing tech to the cartography tech? That's a pretty long time, and in that entire time you're the only one who can sail across the ocean to find other civs and city states that might serve as your victim (unless Maori are in the game, I guess). Even on the off chance you can't find any tiles to raid, you can also raid goody huts for free tech and civic boosts, free scouts, gold, etc. I have had better luck finding things to raid on coastal tiles than I have with getting neighbors close enough to use the almighty early UUs like Eagle Warriors and War Carts on. Besides all that they are, IMO, a blast to use and I think it's too early for them to be going out (even though it seems inevitable). I'd love to be able to throw some upvotes towards other units I think are great like Conquistadors, Diggers, and Jongs, but for now I've got to keep sticking up for these guys.
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 4

    I think the discussion about how to judge units based on bonuses is both fair and healthy, and it comes with the territory of doing this. IIRC, the same discussion took place in the last elimination thread about unique units for a lot of the same reasons.
     
  18. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,429
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Barbary Corsair (Ottomans) - 2 =5-3 Agreed, this should go before Longship. Longship has many uses, though I do recommend a water type map. This one just doesn't have the punch to help in Ottoman conquest, unlike their other uu.
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 8
    Digger (Australia) - 25
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 28
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 23
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 26 =25+1 I'm seeing too much bias against naval units. This one has some serious punch. Yeah you are most likely playing them peaceful, but they can be useful to take some coastal cities for more seaside resorts and such if you are going cultural. Just a few cities, don't want to run up the grievances. The kicker is how early they come, which makes them useful.
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 9
    Toa (Maori) - 28
    Varu (India) - 26
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 10
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 21
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 4

    This is how I feel. But I do feel if it's a civ with multiple leaders, the uu should be based on only the UU's strengths. But for civs with only 1 leader, those leader traits do come in to play. And I do judge how much effect it will have, which is why I marked some uu's down for peaceful civs (meaning civs that benefit more from staying at peace).
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    11,506
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 8
    Digger (Australia) - 25
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 28
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 28
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 20 (23-3) what are these guys doing here? Expensive, no bonus vs other troops, needs iron, not upgradeable to, they are +1 support and +5 vs districts, unbelievable other things can be nocked out ahead of a dull unit like this. As Alex I’d rather just have a sword.
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 26
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 9
    Toa (Maori) - 28
    Varu (India) - 26
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 10
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 22 (21+1) ever played these guys in number once upgraded? The ability to move after shooting and a whopping +20 in all situations makes these incredibly OP and play so differently, the move after shoot gives so many options, especially with a general. How they were lower than a hypaspist is just beyond me.
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 4
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    local_hero likes this.
  20. KayAU

    KayAU King

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    938
    Black Army (Corvinus/Hungary) - 21
    Conquistador (Spain) - 26
    Cossack (Russia) - 8
    Digger (Australia) - 25
    Eagle Warrior (Aztec) - 29 (28 + 1) This is another unit which is going to be in the top 3 or at least 4, and for good reason. Available early, powerful, excellent secondary ability, good synergy with civ ability.
    Hetairoi (Macedon/Alexander) - 28
    Hypaspist (Macedon) - 20
    Immortal (Persia) - 25
    Janissary (Ottomans) - 28
    Jong (Indonesia) - 27
    Legion (Rome) - 27
    Mamluk (Arabia) - 24
    Minas Geraes (Brazil) - 26
    Pítati Archer (Nubia) - 30
    Redcoat (England/Victoria) - 9
    Toa (Maori) - 28
    Varu (India) - 26
    Viking Longship (Norway) - 10
    Warak'aq (Inca) - 22
    War-Cart (Sumeria) - 31
    Winged Hussar (Poland) - 1 (4 - 3) It is probably one of the least good units left. It is strong, but the need to hard build, relatively high cost, and late upgrade means you have a fairly small window of opportunity to take advantage of this one.

    I'm not sure I agree that naval units are generally worse than land units, as that depends on which map types you like to play. Outside the early game barbarian busing, I think I actually fight more with naval units than land units.
     
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