What do you want out of life?

[bernie14]

They have much less and milder side effects than maois and other anti depressants, and less drug interactions. They are generally much safer/less severe.




I'm sorry those things happened to you and your friends but first all of your mentions are young people. There are severe risks that I don't think SSRIs and anti depressants in general are prescribed for teens as much. All of them carry huge warnings for people under 24.

Second all of your info is anecdotal. Although sever cases of trauma, it would be like one person dying from sepsis after an appendectomy and then telling everyone well appendectomy procedures are unsafe. Or like one person having a reaction to a vaccine and declaring vaccines unsafe and not worth the benefits. It ignores all the people who have been helped by these drugs.



It used to be shell shocked for vets and just leave em alone. Now it's PTSD and we have treatments. Just one example. There's more emotional awareness now.

Personally I blame a lot of the rise in anxiety and depression lately on social media and constantly being online. Studies show direct proportional increases in anxiety and depression in relation to the amount of time spent on social media.

The studies that "earned" the suicide warnings for all antidepressants included about 77k adults and 4.5k children and adolescents. The increase in suicidal thinking was 14 additional cases for every thousand among those younger than 19. 5 additional cases for those between 19 and 24. For older than 24, the suicidal ideation dropped. Interesting that the current concept is that the age of onset of bipolar disorder may be earlier (mid to late teens), than that of major depressive disorder (mid 20's) and increasing serotonin levels may actually be detrimental for many bipolar patients

Maybe today, in the 90s kids were getting put on SSRIs all the time.


I'm not ignoring anyone.

Aimee asked me why I'm not a fan of SSRIs and I said I think they're unsafe and they felt unsafe for me

Also bad reactions to such drugs is hardly a statistical anomaly. Again, read about how many of the school shooters were on such drugs.

In the cost benefit analysis IMO those drugs are bad news, again I've said they might work for some (I keep repeating that and people still keep not seeing it...)


Its definitely part of the problem but depression rates were blowing up even in the 90s and early 00s before social media

From the CDC

far as i can tell, the trends were pretty flat going back into the 90's as well....

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

and increasing serotonin levels may actually be detrimental for many bipolar patients

As well, it's very possible for a case of depression to actually be undiagnosed bipolar disorder.

 

[rah]

This is starting to look like it needs it's own thread.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Moderators?

 

[Gorbles]

Strange assumption...


Linked to feeling failed by society and the mental health system.

If more people than ever are seeking help AND suicide rates are at record levels you might draw the conclusion that business-as-usual mental/emotional health care is failing.

Not just the take-a-pill and call in 6 weeks style of health care, there are other factors as well and just because I don't discuss them all doesnt mean I don't acknowledge them.

I don't feel you're being honest, you're trying to fight. Its fine, I get bored too.

I guess if your default assumption about me is "you're not being honest" while protesting the fact that you're making assumptions, there's nothing to really discuss here. It's a shame; like I said, mental health is important to me. I want to discuss the things you're not, because they're tied to your sweeping generalisations about "psych meds" and how much you think they're related to the problems you see in society.

 

[Narz]

far as i can tell, the trends were pretty flat going back into the 90's as well....

Probably was my circumstances then, I was at a number of "alternative" (reform) schools where pretty much every kid there was on drugs, often 3 or 4 different kinds.

As well, it's very possible for a case of depression to actually be undiagnosed bipolar disorder.

For me I don't think I ever had actual bipolar disorder but I was diagnosed with it. It was definitely medication induced.

So I'm on wellbutrin which is giving me crazy insomnia so then they tell me I have mania as well as prescribe xanax and antipsychotics to calm down/sleep. This is not science and a pretty f-ed up way to treat a child's brain and emotions.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Something can be unsafe and still help some people.

But is anything really safe? Risks and benefits.

 

[civvver]

But is anything really safe? Risks and benefits.

Pillows are very safe. Unless you're an infant and suffocate face down in one cus you don't have the muscle development to roll over.

 

[Lexicus]

Something can be unsafe and still help some people.

Something can be safe and helpful and still cause adverse reactions in some people.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

For me I don't think I ever had actual bipolar disorder but I was diagnosed with it. It was definitely medication induced.

In undiagnosed bipolar patients, antidepressants can cause a switch to mania. The DSM-5 recognizes this as far as I can recall.

 

[Narz]

I guess if your default assumption about me is "you're not being honest"

It's not default, it's based on the things you say and the assumptions you make based on things I haven't said (and thus you assume I haven't considered)

there's nothing to really discuss here. It's a shame; like I said, mental health is important to me. I want to discuss the things you're not

So go ahead... I'm not your boss

because they're tied to your sweeping generalisations about "psych meds" and how much you think they're related to the problems you see in society.

Bro I'm sharing my personal experience.

I think psychiatric medication is overprescribed and w unacceptable side effects. If you disagree that's cool. You do you.

You're taking what I say very personally. Not sure if theres a pill for that but speak to your doctor.

 

[Narz]

Something can be safe and helpful and still cause adverse reactions in some people.

Depends on your standard of safety. I have my own standards of safety, not leaving it to a corrupt industry to tell what is and isn't safe.

In undiagnosed bipolar patients, antidepressants can cause a switch to mania. The DSM-5 recognizes this as far as I can recall.

That sounds ridiculous. I wasn't experiencing mania and then I take meds that cause these symptoms... it wasn't latent or undiagnosed it wasn't there and then due to biochemical changes it was.

May as well say cigarettes can illuminate the presence of previously undiagnosed lung cancer.

 

[MaryKB]

Depends on your standard of safety. I have my own standards of safety, not leaving it to a corrupt industry to tell what is and isn't safe.

This sounds like something you often see from anti-vaxxers??

Considering you're open to taking your friend's mom's antibiotics, your posts here don't really seem to make much sense to me?

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

That sounds ridiculous. I wasn't experiencing mania and then I take meds that cause these symptoms... it wasn't latent or undiagnosed it wasn't there and then due to biochemical changes it was.

Often, misdiagnosed bipolar patients have had hypomanic episodes, but failed to report them because they were considered to not be problematic.

 

[Gorbles]

That sounds ridiculous. I wasn't experiencing mania and then I take meds that cause these symptoms... it wasn't latent or undiagnosed it wasn't there and then due to biochemical changes it was.

May as well say cigarettes can illuminate the presence of previously undiagnosed lung cancer.

You have a habit of basing a disagreement on your own personal lived experience, the anecdotal total of one whole person. This isn't the best habit to have.

Trying to make personal comments at people who disagree with you based on assumptions about them (how you think I'm going to respond based on past behaviour is still an assumption - if I did that to you I'm sure you'd end up put out as well) is also a bad habit, but I'm sure we can work through this (I'm assuming the topic will be split at some point).

You're sharing your personal experience. That's cool. You should probably stop telling other people they're wrong, then, because your experience doesn't invalidate either their own personal experiences, or their actual knowledge on the subject.

 

[Lexicus]

That sounds ridiculous. I wasn't experiencing mania and then I take meds that cause these symptoms... it wasn't latent or undiagnosed it wasn't there and then due to biochemical changes it was.

May as well say cigarettes can illuminate the presence of previously undiagnosed lung cancer.

It doesn't sound ridiculous at all if you actually know what you're talking about to some degree. Antidepressants literally work by causing low-key mania symptoms...so if someone is prone to switching between mania and depression, of course antidepressants can trigger a manic phase.

Depends on your standard of safety. I have my own standards of safety, not leaving it to a corrupt industry to tell what is and isn't safe.

Yes, and I think the rest of us can tell how much "your own standards of safety" are worth...

 

[El_Machinae]

I worked pretty deeply in neuroscience, but I also would not really trust the pharma companies when it comes to meds. Or, really, the doctors. Too many bad incentives. And serially underfunded science.
There will be a cohort for whom a drug is beneficial and a cohort for whom it won't be. You need diagnostics to tell the difference, and that's where the progress will be. Some people will have benefited from the psychiatrist practicing on them. Others will be harmed. The only real long-term solution is better diagnostics. But, see again my comment about 'serially underfunded'.

 

[Narz]

Often, misdiagnosed bipolar patients have had hypomanic episodes, but failed to report them because they were considered to not be problematic.

Yeah hypomania can be fun.

You have a habit of basing a disagreement on your own personal lived experience, the anecdotal total of one whole person.

I'm not even sure what you're even disagreeing on anymore. Iirc you're saying I do not acknowledge any other problems in mental health care besides overpersciption, which is nonsense, shoot we'd probably even have many points of agreement if youd dismount your high horse but I suspect you've been up there so long you don't trust yourself to actually walk.

And I've known lots of people involved in mental health care, for decades.

Trying to make personal comments at people who disagree with you based on assumptions about them (how you think I'm going to respond based on past behaviour is still an assumption - if I did that to you I'm sure you'd end up put out as well) is also a bad habit, but I'm sure we can work through this (I'm assuming the topic will be split at some point).

You're sharing your personal experience. That's cool. You should probably stop telling other people they're wrong, then, because your experience doesn't invalidate either their own personal experiences, or their actual knowledge on the subject.

Wake up. No one is invalidating you. Point to one post where I invalidated your or anyone else's experience or stfu (you can also just choose the latter, that's fine )

You have yet to even share an opinion, you're just arguing w a weird strawman version of me.

It's not a satisfying exchange.

It doesn't sound ridiculous at all if you actually know what you're talking about to some degree. Antidepressants literally work by causing low-key mania symptoms...so if someone is prone to switching between mania and depression, of course antidepressants can trigger a manic phase.

Brain neuroscience broken down into simply depression and mania. Even a child's understanding has more depth and accuracy.

Yes, and I think the rest of us can tell how much "your own standards of safety" are worth...

You're entitled to your opinions and I support your right to life your life by your own standards.

 

[Lexicus]

You're entitled to your opinions and I support your right to life your life by your own standards.

Just fyi, you aren't the only one who's had bad experiences with psych meds...I guess the difference between us is that I don't think it makes me smarter than all the psychiatrists, psychologists, and pharmacologists in the world

 

[Gorbles]

I know lots of (medical) doctors @Narz, it doesn't make me an authority on the profession.

You don't seem to understand that when you disagree with someone, you're also telling them that they're wrong? That is what a disagreement is? You're making a bunch of claims (like how medication is apparently tied to a rise in mental illness), and you're not backing them up in the slightest. I've offered a bunch of opinions (that you've discounted because you've assumed from the offset that I'm not debating in good faith, which is entirely on you, and not my problem, except when you then make the silly claim I haven't given any opinions of my own).

Ironically, by telling me I'm yet to share an opinion, that's you still invalidating the opinions I have shared! I don't know what I need to say to get you to sit up and maybe read my posts without whatever bias you've brought in from whatever other posts of mine you think you've read (which I have no doubt you've skimmed, but obviously the understanding ain't there).

I said there are other reasons for a rise in diagnosed mental illness. That's an opinion! I mean, it's an observable fact, whereas medication is a lot more nuanced a subject and will vary massively on the individual and country in question (and often state, in the US). And you say I haven't offered any? C'mon now