What do you want out of life?

[Narz]

Just fyi, you aren't the only one who's had bad experiences with psych meds...I guess the difference between us is that I don't think it makes me smarter than all the psychiatrists, psychologists, and pharmacologists in the world

More strawman nonsense. And again lack of actual reading

I had a pretty decent shrink the 90s, hes the one who admitted it's kind of a crapshoot prescribing drugs (I already mentioned him but you dont read). I respected his ethics and his intelligence. His toolbox and understanding were just inadequate.

Saying the industry is corrupt and its understanding is limited is not saying "I'm smarter than all the docs" (keep in mind this is the same industry that considered homosexuality a disorder until the 70s) But perhaps it seems that way to someone who thinks antidepressants work by causing mania.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Just fyi, you aren't the only one who's had bad experiences with psych meds...I guess the difference between us is that I don't think it makes me smarter than all the psychiatrists, psychologists, and pharmacologists in the world

I had a bad experience with antidepressants that put me in the hospital.

Spoiler boring details :

Before my PD was diagnosed, I was given amitriptyline (a TCA) as an anticholinergic to see if it might've been some extrapyramidal thing (I was taking citalopram at the time).

Although there were no contradictions, I ended up in the emergency room because I thought I was having a heart attack. It was actually QT prolongation. I stopped taking them.

 

[Narz]

You're making a bunch of claims (like how medication is apparently tied to a rise in mental illness)

Nope.

I said antidepressant use is rising as is mental health problems. I never claimed one is causing the other just that clearly the current system of treating mental illness (with meds as one of its main cornerstones) is clearly inadequate.

you've assumed from the offset that I'm not debating in good faith

Because you say things like that because I haven't addressed other issues I'm discounting them. I haven't talked about socioeconomic issues but it makes no sense to assume I think theyre irrelevant.

I said there are other reasons for a rise in diagnosed mental illness.

Sure, I agree. But you continue to argue as if I don't...

 

[Gorbles]

Nope.

I said antidepressant use is rising as is mental health problems. I never claimed one is causing the other just that clearly the current system of treating mental illness (with meds as one of its main cornerstones) is clearly inadequate.

Mental illness and depression in particular has been rising steadily in the last half dozen decades or so, right along with the rise in anti-depressant use. The problem has gotten so severe that the average life-span of a US citizen has actually gone down over the last few years IIRC, and it's not due to lack of enough prescribed pills, quite the opposite.

This is you saying "the problem" is due to the "opposite" of a "lack" of pills. Which means, the problem is due to an abundance of pills.

Because you say things like that because I haven't addressed other issues I'm discounting them. I haven't talked about socioeconomic issues but it makes no sense to assume I think theyre irrelevant.

Sure, I agree. But you continue to argue as if I don't...

No, I continue to argue because you just made the claim I haven't offered opinions, and still haven't bothered to correct yourself

If you don't think other aspects of the culture around mental health are also relevant, but you literally don't mention them at all unless I drag the mention out of you, then I assume you think that medication is the bigger problem. Instead of going on about my motives, complaining I don't offer opinions, or claiming "strawman", maybe clarify for me what you think the biggest issue is. If you think the biggest issue is medication, then I can keep debating what I've been debating and nothing changes. Because I do not think that's the biggest issue! Which is why I raised other factors in the first place.

I came to this thread with an open mind for discussion, like I try to most times (don't always succeed, but hey). You're the one who dragged it down with "motive" this and "strawman" that. Can we just move past the boring and debate the actual thing we're talking around?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

No, it's exactly the opposite. There is no conformity

you're either insincere or insane. also, it should be obvious that the new mantra of "be unique, be authentic, be an individual" is in itself conformity and pressure. but if you want one good example of regular old conformity, just think about the idea of women's beauty in society and tell me it doesn't almost exclusively conform to advertising or hollywood. no amount of body positivity on tumblr will stop young women from infavorably comparing themselves to stars & models.

 

[Farm Boy]

Arguing with weird distortions of other people does seem very 2019.

Chernobyl HBOs conversation about truth seems timely. It's so easy to fall into, at least I find when it comes to me.

 

[bernie14]

In undiagnosed bipolar patients, antidepressants can cause a switch to mania. The DSM-5 recognizes this as far as I can recall.

Depends on your standard of safety. I have my own standards of safety, not leaving it to a corrupt industry to tell what is and isn't safe.


That sounds ridiculous. I wasn't experiencing mania and then I take meds that cause these symptoms... it wasn't latent or undiagnosed it wasn't there and then due to biochemical changes it was.

May as well say cigarettes can illuminate the presence of previously undiagnosed lung cancer.

Iirc, strictly speaking, when a substance causes a mood disturbance, the dsm5 refers to that as a substance induced mood disorder. To "qualify" for a dx of bipolar 1 or 2, the manic or hypomanic episodes, respectively, had to have occured "naturally". Now, if someone had a previous/undiagnosed manic or hypomanic episode and then, during a depressive episode treated with antidepressants, switched to manic/hypomanic, you can diagnose bipolar. Diagnosing psych conditions can be somewhat arbitrary, and to be honest, some docs are awful at diagnosing and/or explaining treatment options to patients

 

[Arakhor]

Moderators?

If someone familiar with this thread would tell me where to split it, please do.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I'm not sure myself. I didn't jump in until the conversation was already well started.

 

[emzie]

I want comfort. I want a reliable car that's safe in all weather. I want my apartment to be between 18C and 26C. I want my bills covered. I want my cats fed and to have access to a vet. I want to not care so much about so much. I want reliability.

I wanna know how, through my own efforts, to make all those things guaranteed.

This is you saying "the problem" is due to the "opposite" of a "lack" of pills. Which means, the problem is due to an abundance of pills.

No, I continue to argue because you just made the claim I haven't offered opinions, and still haven't bothered to correct yourself

If you don't think other aspects of the culture around mental health are also relevant, but you literally don't mention them at all unless I drag the mention out of you, then I assume you think that medication is the bigger problem. Instead of going on about my motives, complaining I don't offer opinions, or claiming "strawman", maybe clarify for me what you think the biggest issue is. If you think the biggest issue is medication, then I can keep debating what I've been debating and nothing changes. Because I do not think that's the biggest issue! Which is why I raised other factors in the first place.

I came to this thread with an open mind for discussion, like I try to most times (don't always succeed, but hey). You're the one who dragged it down with "motive" this and "strawman" that. Can we just move past the boring and debate the actual thing we're talking around?

I think the biggest issue in psychiatry is that it is a branch of medicine in the first place. As it is practiced, more than any other type of doctor, it is an art. That's *not* a positive trait, imho.

I think it would be better considered a subdiscipline of neurology.

 

[bernie14]

....I think the biggest issue in psychiatry is that it is a branch of medicine in the first place. As it is practiced, more than any other type of doctor, it is an art. That's *not* a positive trait, imho.

I think it would be better considered a subdiscipline of neurology.

Don't get it....is neurology a branch of medicine?

 

[emzie]

Don't get it....is neurology a branch of medicine?

Yes, the nervous system as a whole. Psychiatry can only really be justified as separate if you adopt a dualist perspective on mind and body.

 

[bernie14]

Yes, the nervous system as a whole. Psychiatry can only really be justified as separate if you adopt a dualist perspective on mind and body.

blame the psycho analists

 

[emzie]

My last psychiatrist was also a psychoanalyst. He's much to do about why I've soured on the entire field, heh.

5 months into seeing him twice a week, he told me, "I think you're in love with a man, and that man, is me." and I was like nopebye

 

[bernie14]

My last psychiatrist was also a psychoanalyst. He's much to do about why I've soured on the entire field, heh.

5 months into seeing him twice a week, he told me, "I think you're in love with a man, and that man, is me." and I was like nopebye

Putting the psycho in psychoanalysis

 

[sdtum21]

I want a job that I don't completely hate and that pays well enough for me to be able to comfortably sustain myself (plus a little extra to save for the luxuries in life, ), and away from that job I want to live a simple life where I spend all my time continuing to do that which I love (absorbing myself wholly in gaming). If I can also find a nice ladyfriend with which to share said life then that would be nice, but this is by far the least feasible of my aspirations.

I don't completely hate my current job, and the pay is sound enough. I just don't currently work enough hours to reasonably be able to live in my own place (and I'd much rather live alone than with others, which is of course even more expensive). Fortunately, whilst continuing to live with my parents is becoming increasingly detrimental to my mental health over time (they're getting old and broken and I have anxiety), my financial outgoings are almost nonexistent, so I at least have some breathing room in that respect.

And whilst I do live my life away from work in pretty much the way I desire, doing so under this roof is less than ideal.

I'm working my way up to overcoming these issues though, (very) slowly but surely. I think it's fair to say that what I want from life is very modest indeed, but it's what I want and that's all that matters. Gaming makes me happy, so I just wish to be able to pay for me and pay for it so I can continue to do it forever more,

 

[Birdjaguar]

I want a job that I don't completely hate and that pays well enough for me to be able to comfortably sustain myself (plus a little extra to save for the luxuries in life, ), and away from that job I want to live a simple life where I spend all my time continuing to do that which I love (absorbing myself wholly in gaming). If I can also find a nice ladyfriend with which to share said life then that would be nice, but this is by far the least feasible of my aspirations.

I don't completely hate my current job, and the pay is sound enough. I just don't currently work enough hours to reasonably be able to live in my own place (and I'd much rather live alone than with others, which is of course even more expensive). Fortunately, whilst continuing to live with my parents is becoming increasingly detrimental to my mental health over time (they're getting old and broken and I have anxiety), my financial outgoings are almost nonexistent, so I at least have some breathing room in that respect.

And whilst I do live my life away from work in pretty much the way I desire, doing so under this roof is less than ideal.

I'm working my way up to overcoming these issues though, (very) slowly but surely. I think it's fair to say that what I want from life is very modest indeed, but it's what I want and that's all that matters. Gaming makes me happy, so I just wish to be able to pay for me and pay for it so I can continue to do it forever more,

Welcome to CFC OT. We love it when new folks join the conversations.

 

[Ajidica]

I don't mean to be insensitive, but if those drugs didn't exist we would probably be more pressured to create a society which humans can actually function in. Suppressing the problem makes it a permanent one.

Yeah, that's a flat no.
I legitimately did struggle to function in society before high school and getting a good diagnosis/med prescription. I had a whole host of behavioral issues and other things that made focusing on tasks, interacting with others, and even basic human empathy quite difficult. I certainly do not expect the world to conform around me 'off-meds', nor do I find it an entirely good thing.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

but if you want one good example of regular old conformity, just think about the idea of women's beauty in society and tell me it doesn't almost exclusively conform to advertising or hollywood. no amount of body positivity on tumblr will stop young women from infavorably comparing themselves to stars & models.

To impress other women. Men are realistic enough in that regard, I think. Sometimes I actually feel sorry for them.

 

[emzie]

To impress other women. Men are realistic enough in that regard, I think. Sometimes I actually feel sorry for them.

Not to impress, but to compete with other women.

Lots of men have their own body image issues, too, but they don't get taken as seriously which is a damn shame.