Why can't we put life on Mars?

Radiation/lack of a strong magnetic field seems to be the most intractable issue here, would most agree?

How can this be addressed?

Denser atmosphere. Earth's magnetic field largely prevent erosion of atmosphere - most of hard radiation is absorbed by the atmosphere itself.

Mars is further from the Sun, so a denser atmosphere would work just fine to reduce background radiation to acceptable levels.
 
I hold out more hope for Venus than Mars. Research into dealing with its atmosphere could seriously help us to address the problems of unwanted chemicals in our own atmosphere, and in the mean time Venus possesses many elements which we are quickly running out of on Earth, like Helium, which can be harvested from its upper atmosphere. It's nearly the same size as Earth, the one enormous problem is that it has no magnetic field, which kinda sucks.

More enormous problems are:

a) it's lack of a sane rotation cycle (want your day to last for over 200 earth days?)
b) it's HUGE atmosphere. Getting rid of excess atmosphere is far, faaaaar harder than releasing a completely new one
c) it's lack of volatiles (hydrogen). No hydrogen, no oceans. Practically all the water would have to be brought to Venus from the outer solar system.

The same size isn't much of an advantage; it makes it harder to go down and up its gravity well.
 
Because there is the faintest chance there is something already there and if it gets eaten by our earth bacteria then that'll be two planets we've caused mass extinctions on.
 
More enormous problems are:

a) it's lack of a sane rotation cycle (want your day to last for over 200 earth days?)
b) it's HUGE atmosphere. Getting rid of excess atmosphere is far, faaaaar harder than releasing a completely new one
c) it's lack of volatiles (hydrogen). No hydrogen, no oceans. Practically all the water would have to be brought to Venus from the outer solar system.

The same size isn't much of an advantage; it makes it harder to go down and up its gravity well.

Indeed. Venus is probably more useful as a giant mine and laboratory. The same dynamics which stripped it of it hydrogen incidentally left it with a much higher than normal concentration of deuterium than we have on earth, and there are large quantities of organic elements like sulfur.

I remember Carl Sagan heading a team a few decades ago that was exploring bacteria to be released into the Venusian atmosphere which would process its carbon dioxide and sulfuric acid into something more useful (contained in those molecules you have hydrogen, oxygen, and sulfur! And there is also nitrogen already in the atmosphere, albeit in smaller quantities than here). I don't think much became of it, but that was decades ago before we properly understood genomes; it's possible that in future decades or centuries we will come up with a way to make such an organism.

With regards to the day, though, I read a plan for floating cities in the upper atmosphere which would be driven around the planet by winds at roughly the same speed as the Earth rotates, resulting in a more normal "day" for inhabitants. We could conceivably have a sort of "Cloud City" on Venus for mining deuterium/helium/sulfuric acid. And surface operations would be useful as well, if they ever became possible. Much larger quantities of tellurium, for example, which falls in pure form as snow at higher elevations.
 
I think it's a great idea, especially if these organsisms were proto-terraforming ones. Because it's using life, you can look for exponential growth. This means starting earlier is much better than starting later, and small investments grow over time.

The one serious objection I know is that it would 'contaminate' Mars. There's a lot of science to be done there. And a lot of looking for Martian life still. If we do this thing, then find life on Mars, we'll not know if it's historical or anthropogenic life.

I find this to be a fair enough objection, but it needs a deadline. It's like those who say "take care of people here before going to space!". Sure, but let's set goalposts and then move towards those goalposts as efficiently as possible.

Luckily, progress can occur on two fronts at once. We could concomitantly create these organisms while exploring Mars. Science that results in a faster growth rate in the organisms would 'Pay back' the delay in time, just like delaying an investment at 4% is 'okay' compared to an investment at 2%. I mean, it would likely be better to lob a tonne of the 2% growth stuff and then another ton of the 4% growth stuff when it's invented, but ehn, Mars needs science.
 
I hold out more hope for Venus than Mars. Research into dealing with its atmosphere could seriously help us to address the problems of unwanted chemicals in our own atmosphere, and in the mean time Venus possesses many elements which we are quickly running out of on Earth, like Helium, which can be harvested from its upper atmosphere. It's nearly the same size as Earth, the one enormous problem is that it has no magnetic field, which kinda sucks.

I agree life is more likely on Venus than Mars.

I also don't think Earth life has a chance on Mars without genetic engineering. The atmosphere is too thin, the water too scarce, it's too cold and not enough energy sources (be they chemical, solar, whatever) to sustain it. Also, the radiation environment is terrible.


I think that if there is already life on Mars, the great debate of the next century is whether or not humans have the right to change Mars to make it more suitable for Earth life if doing so endangers native Martian life.
 
Why can't we put life on Mars?

Aside from all the potential microbes we might have brought with us so far, I'm not sure we really want to do this yet.

I think the scientists generally want to study the planet in an uncontaminated state, so we can learn more about it. Plus they are still hopeful to find life there, and that would be a lot harder to do after there's cockroaches and other bugs running around.
 
I agree life is more likely on Venus than Mars.

I also don't think Earth life has a chance on Mars without genetic engineering. The atmosphere is too thin, the water too scarce, it's too cold and not enough energy sources (be they chemical, solar, whatever) to sustain it. Also, the radiation environment is terrible..

I'd say subterranean (subareanean?) is much more likely on Mars than Venus. Because water, which may be liquid deep underground, where temperatures and pressures are higher. On Earth, we've found life very, very deep underground.

Genetic engineering would indeed be needed, but I doubt we've got the necessary skills right now. I mean, the changes to the DNA of Earth-based organisms would have to be massive. We'd probably start with the things that manage to survive in Antarctica or Atacama desert.
 
I hold out more hope for Venus than Mars.
Makes sense considering men are from Mars. :mischief:

I in my right mind.

If terran life is to survive long term, it needs to spread beyond Earth. Humans can be the agents of its spread - turning previously non-living balls of rocks into more Earths, with new paths open for evolution.

Mars can be made into something very close to Earth (dense atmosphere, seas, oceans, vast forests and grasslands teeming with animals), yet charmingly different due to the ~40% gravity. Worth a try.
It would be cool to be able to jump super high & whatnot but I'm not sure how well the human body would adapt to it over the years & decades.

I have no doubt there would be many brave pioneers like yourself who'd want to be on the front lines. I'll take my chances here though.
 
Because there is the faintest chance there is something already there and if it gets eaten by our earth bacteria then that'll be two planets we've caused mass extinctions on.

I agree. Until we are absolutely sure that there is no life on Mars already we should do nothing to spreard earth life to Mars.
 
Honestly if there is a life form that has spent billions of years evolving for Mars' odd conditions I highly doubt earth bacteria could go over there and aggressively out compete it to extinction. When things on earth outcompeted other things to extinction its because while isolated from each other they evolved in similar conditions and one was simply better at it. Earth bacteria and Martian life would have had radically different evolutionary paths and conditions.
 
Mars is a barren, nigh-useless, irradiated, lonely hellhole with a strict "Bring Your Own Air" policy. The radiation and low gravity would be bad for health, it's completely lacking in breathable air, organic soil and probably liquid water, and is generally nastier than any place on Earth. And just a question from an ignorant non-science guy, but can Mars sustain an atmosphere without a magnetic field?

Why not start out by making sure Earth will remain habitable and figuring out how to colonize Antarctica and the other largely unsettled parts of this world's deserts? The logistics are vastly simpler, the gravity's healthy, and the air's breathable. It would also get us practice in colonizing space.
 
It would be cool to be able to jump super high & whatnot but I'm not sure how well the human body would adapt to it over the years & decades.

Maybe better than one would expect. Without the oppressive force of Earth's gravity, humans would grow taller and leaner (their bone density would decrease, so returning to Earth would be painful at best, impossible at worst - A.C. Clarke dealt with this a lot in his sci-fi works). Skin would probably wrinkle/loosen less and humans would thus not age so visibly. Women's breasts wouldn't sag so much with age. Sleeping and other activities in bed would be less strenuous and more comfortable, too :mischief:
 
Because there is the faintest chance there is something already there and if it gets eaten by our earth bacteria then that'll be two planets we've caused mass extinctions on.
I think that if there is already life on Mars, the great debate of the next century is whether or not humans have the right to change Mars to make it more suitable for Earth life if doing so endangers native Martian life.

Those Martians know what they did, and they are going to get what they deserved. Humanity #1!

Indeed. Venus is probably more useful as a giant mine and laboratory. The same dynamics which stripped it of it hydrogen incidentally left it with a much higher than normal concentration of deuterium than we have on earth, and there are large quantities of organic elements like sulfur.

I remember Carl Sagan heading a team a few decades ago that was exploring bacteria to be released into the Venusian atmosphere which would process its carbon dioxide and sulfuric acid into something more useful (contained in those molecules you have hydrogen, oxygen, and sulfur! And there is also nitrogen already in the atmosphere, albeit in smaller quantities than here). I don't think much became of it, but that was decades ago before we properly understood genomes; it's possible that in future decades or centuries we will come up with a way to make such an organism.

With regards to the day, though, I read a plan for floating cities in the upper atmosphere which would be driven around the planet by winds at roughly the same speed as the Earth rotates, resulting in a more normal "day" for inhabitants. We could conceivably have a sort of "Cloud City" on Venus for mining deuterium/helium/sulfuric acid. And surface operations would be useful as well, if they ever became possible. Much larger quantities of tellurium, for example, which falls in pure form as snow at higher elevations.

In before the first Exxon: Venus spill and the Deepcloud Horizon disaster.

It would be cool to be able to jump super high & whatnot but I'm not sure how well the human body would adapt to it over the years & decades.

I have no doubt there would be many brave pioneers like yourself who'd want to be on the front lines. I'll take my chances here though.

I'd imagine similar exercise programs to what they have on the ISS would be implemented.

I'd love to live long enough to see the first kid born on Mars, grow up, and then come here and be crushed by superior Earth gravity.
 
I'd love to live long enough to see the first kid born on Mars, grow up, and then come here and be crushed by superior Earth gravity.

Or muscular Earthlings come to Mars and overpower the pathetic scrawny Martians.
 
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