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[RD] Why is there so much suffering in the world?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by caketastydelish, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    :huh: Of course they are. There's a reason why animals do or don't do a whole host of things. The reason is because they've learned that doing/not doing them leads to being dead.

    There are animals who mourn their dead, and some animals mourn the dead of other species. Elephants are especially notable for this, and when Koko the Gorilla was told of Robin Williams' death, she mourned him (the two had bonded as friends in an earlier encounter).
     
  2. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    Yeah, but actually, how is it different than with other humans ? It's a common philosophical question : "is what I see green the same than someone else would see as green ?". For what I know, maybe you see green as I see red.
    Of course we can communicate, but our own perceptions are unique to ourselves. We can never be sure that other experiences are actually the same as ours.
    Yes, we can communicate and we are the same species (so the same stimuli should logically cause the same perception) so it's a much closer guess, but we still base our interpretation on external clues.
     
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  3. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I said "most" :)
     
  4. Modder_Mode

    Modder_Mode Warlord

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    It does sound very familiar, it was basically on the lines of humans becoming so intelligent in the future that we create everything from the beginning.
     
  5. tjs282

    tjs282 Disillusionist

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    (If I've understood you correctly) I'm not sure that this is strictly true. The famous Koko the gorilla, who had learned a basic handsign-vocabulary, was then able to combine those signs in ways that she hadn't been taught, to describe unfamiliar things.
    Which is not unlike the way that small children combine known words (or invent new ones) for things that they don't know the names of yet.
     
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  6. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Well, did Koko say anything interesting, like refer to aliens or demons? :)
     
  7. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    Yes, that bit about Koko is true. Though linguists differentiate between words and lexigraphs -- most great apes deal exclusively in the latter.
     
  8. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    Demons...which she blamed on the Greeks.
     
  9. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    Hmm, aside from what should be a "common sense" -duh- , this sounds a little judgy, i mean, if someone tells me they are suffering, should i just dismiss them by telling them there is always someone who has it worse?
     
  10. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    Only if you can handily point to someone who very clearly "has it worse" and yet is not suffering themselves.
     
  11. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    But who am i to judge?
     
  12. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    A human. That's a much more common experience than most people give it credit for...especially in USian culture where everyone wants to believe in their own irredeemable uniqueness.
     
  13. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    What's a much more common experience, being human or being judgy?
     
  14. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    There's a difference?
     
  15. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    Not much, but here's the thing...as the observer, can i judge that a man who has not been able to initiate a fulfilling relationship is suffering more or less than some man who lost his home in a war zone?
     
  16. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    I never did say that. You don't have to actually think about your future in order to suffer, but be aware to some degree that there is time and that you exist in it. I think animals do have some understanding of time, for example they can recognize aged individuals in a group, or they pick a specific place to die. And in that regard I disagree with you, I feel (though I have no proof) that animals are indeed sometimes aware that they're going to die.

    That's where I draw the line with suffering vs. experiencing pain. They're different. I think one could succintly argue that plants feel something analogous to pain (they react aversely to negative stimuli is all we know), but I'm not sure whether I can say that plants suffer.

    not a super serious source but here we go:

    basically I do think that some animals have some sort of understanding of the process that we describe as death, but it's probably wildly different from our conception of death.
     
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  17. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    And cats have been known to "seek out" dying people and snuggle next to them.
     
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  18. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Well, cognitive capacity will vary based on the neuro architecture. Some animals will have deeper concepts than others
     
  19. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Yes.
    A failure to be in a fulfilling relationship is nowhere near as much suffering as someone who had to flee their home after seeing their family chopped up.
    As I said to Mouthwash, attempting to equate the two or throwing up your hands in a sort of "who among us can judge" strikes me as somewhere on the continuum between ignorance and sociopathy.
     
  20. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    And as I said to you, there are people who go through horrific events and don't suffer. So when you say "well, yeah, that's terrible, so go ahead and suffer 'til your guts burst" do you think that you are doing someone a favor?
     

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