[RD] Why is there so much suffering in the world?

[Farm Boy]

Thinking of a start up. The bougiest space rockets for the discerning solar fueltraveller. What features would make your trip better than other people's?

 

[Lexicus]

Maybe the pessimism ends because you get your socialist revolution and all the rich people move off-planet with Elon. Unlikely, but I didn’t rule it out

For someone who loves science so much you sure seem to like ignoring the predictions of climate science and ecology.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Why is there so much suffering in the world?

This is the story of a truce I asked for,
This is the story of a sun I had hoped for,
This is the story of a love I thought was alive,
This is the story of a beautiful day, that me as a little child
Wanted very happy for the whole planet.
I wanted, I was hoping peace reigning supreme on this Christmas eve,
But everything went on, but everything went on, but everything went on...

NO NO NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
EVERYTHING HAS KEPT GOING ON!
NO NO NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
EVERYTHING HAS KEPT GOING ON!
Hey HEY! Hey HEY!


Link to video.

 

[Truthy]

For someone who loves science so much you sure seem to like ignoring the predictions of climate science and ecology.

I’m not. Climate change is one of my biggest concerns. Note where the goalposts are. It’s not “there are no serious problems.” It’s “modernity has been a net benefit.”

 

[Lexicus]

I’m not. Climate change is one of my biggest concerns. Note where the goalposts are. It’s not “there are no serious problems.” It’s “modernity has been a net benefit.”

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant when you implied that the pessimism of today is just a phase, like teen angst. I suppose when billions have died and billions more are trying to scrape a living off rocks in the deserts that will cover most of the planet, there will be nowhere to go but up.

 

[Truthy]

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant when you implied that the pessimism of today is just a phase, like teen angst. I suppose when billions have died and billions more are trying to scrape a living off rocks in the deserts that will cover most of the planet, there will be nowhere to go but up.

You did. Again, the problems are serious. But so many of the solutions proposed in the heat of the moment, on a forum where you must take it to 11 or your motives are suspect, will be laughable in the future. MW’s Pol Pot fantasies to solve mismatch diseases will cause cringe chills in due time. Same can be said for a lot of other ideas floating around.

 

[tjs282]

NO NO NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
EVERYTHING HAS KEPT GOING ON!
NO NO NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
EVERYTHING HAS KEPT GOING ON!
Hey HEY! Hey HEY!

Is that... the same song that gets played on successful completion of the last level of MDK?

*Wikis*

Hey hey, it is!

(But I like the Billy Ze Kick cover better than this one, sorry!)

 

[Mouthwash]

Well, unless you ask, I guess. Given migration trends, on average I'd think the assumption is that the suffering is less.

That's not evidence for things being objectively worse where they came from (for a migrant with healthy traditions and lots of social capital, America is certainly better for them - though things fall apart for their offspring. My parents were first and second-generation immigrants, and look how I turned out).

Yes, and Jesus will return soon! These two expression of piety are literally no different. I actually think that a few decades into the future people will scorn us for being optimistic to the point of delusion.

No, it's a sure bet that the zeitgeist is going to be wildly off.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Why is there so much suffering in the world?

This is the story of a truce I asked for,
This is the story of a sun I had hoped for,
This is the story of a love I thought was alive,
This is the story of a beautiful day, that me as a little child
Wanted very happy for the whole planet.
I wanted, I was hoping peace reigning supreme on this Christmas eve,
But everything went on, but everything went on, but everything went on...

NO NO NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
EVERYTHING HAS KEPT GOING ON!
NO NO NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
EVERYTHING HAS KEPT GOING ON!
Hey HEY! Hey HEY!


Link to video.

Cool French kids singing! And some are wearing bright red pants too!

 

[Marla_Singer]

And some are wearing bright red pants too!

The 1970's....

 

[Lexicus]

No, it's a sure bet that the zeitgeist is going to be wildly off.

Well, I certainly think that there will be a class of people whose wealth insulates them from the hellscape around them who will be wondering what all the fuss is about.

 

[Socrates99]

Well, I certainly think that there will be a class of people whose wealth insulates them from the hellscape around them who will be wondering what all the fuss is about.

I'm going to assume somewhere around 35-40% of Americans will be in that group. Just enough of the eligible voters to keep on keeping on while everything else goes to ****.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The 1970's....

It's that old?
Thanks!

Les Poppys is a French musical group of 17 children founded 1946 in Asnières, France by Jean Amoureux as Les Petits Chanteurs d'Asnières and renamed to Les Poppys in 1970. Francois Bernheim, former singer of the group Les Roche-Martin and artistic director for the record company Barclay, discovered the singers in 1970 and decided to create a group called Les Poppys, named after the word 'Pop Music'.

Les Poppys originated from the Hippie movement and made songs against the Vietnam War. Seventeen boys from the choir were then selected and recorded their first single: 'Noel 70'. The success came very quickly and 600,000 copies were sold. This first single was then followed by other hits during the 70's: 'Isabelle, je t'aime' (500,000 copies sold). The most successful chanson was Non, non, rien n'a changé, for which Bruno Polius was the lead solo singer, and which sold 1,200,000 copies and was a number one hit in The Netherlands and stayed in the Dutch Top 40 for 25 weeks.

Les Poppys became the first child stars in French music history and were quickly invited by other countries to sing in galas, concerts and TV shows. In The Netherlands and in Germany, they even sold more records than the Beatles. In 4 years, Les Poppys sold more than 5 million records and produced four albums and 20 singles from 1970 to 1977. Their success inspired the New Poppys and other groups such as Mercredi Libre from members of Les Petits Chanteurs D'Asnières.

The small singers of Asnières, as they were, consisted of the first generation of Poppys: Bruno Polius, Harry Trowbridge, Philippe and Gabriel Képéklian, Thierry and Philippe Sellier, Philippe and Jean-Pierre Herman, Philippe Magnan, Jean-Jacques Gallard, Pascal Buffenoir, Pierre Puyhardy, Olivier Dubrez, Benoit Cabane, Christophe Normand, Bernard Carayon, Olivier Antignac. Some among them left since 1971 to yield to the second generation of Poppys which included Gérald Meunier, Pascal Oubrayrie, Alain Drexler, Pascal Réali and Daniel Danglard. The group ended in 1978 but Les Petits Chanteurs d'Asnières kept on recording, making backgrounds vocals for famous singers.

And love is suffering too!

Vive Ye ye!

Tous les garçons et les filles de mon âge
se promènent dans la rue deux par deux
tous les garçons et les filles de mon âge
savent bien ce que c'est d'être heureux
et les yeux dans les yeux
et la main dans la main
ils s'en vont amoureux sans peur du lendemain
oui mais moi, je vais seule par les rues, l'âme en peine
oui mais moi, je vais seule, car personne ne m'aime

 

[El_Machinae]

That's not evidence for things being objectively worse where they came from (for a migrant with healthy traditions and lots of social capital, America is certainly better for them - though things fall apart for their offspring. My parents were first and second-generation immigrants, and look how I turned out).



No, it's a sure bet that the zeitgeist is going to be wildly off.

It's certainly not objective, I'm forwarding it as what is believed. It's not just the wealthy suggesting that things are better for the wealthy. I've known two different Refugee families that lived in poverty while working their tails off in order to sponsor more of their loved ones across. I also know of 2 missionary families that deliberately travelled over, and raised families in very poor regions of the planet. But they had Western sponsorship.

It's not objective. And you might be right that we actually can't compare the relative suffering. But implicitly, people seem to have a strong belief that the suffering levels are biased. You mentioned offspring, but I only know one guy who went back after being raised here by immigrant parents

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Plainly speaking - because there is no real collective control, no decision process. Things ... just unfold. So why wouldn't there be suffering?

 

[Mouthwash]

You mentioned offspring, but I only know one guy who went back after being raised here by immigrant parents

Luxury living is addictive, while breaking out of isolation and monotony is (immensely) hard.

Plainly speaking - because there is no real collective control, no decision process. Things ... just unfold. So why wouldn't there be suffering?

People who thought as you are largely responsible for humanity's suffering.

 

[Lexicus]

People who thought as you are largely responsible for humanity's suffering.

I'd say people trying to make things go according to plan probably caused more suffering, myself

 

[Hygro]

So you two agree.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant when you implied that the pessimism of today is just a phase, like teen angst.

That's usually me. When I was your age we all assumed we'd be dead of nuclear warfare by the time we were my age. We're still here, getting old. You most likely will be too when the time comes.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

People who thought as you are largely responsible for humanity's suffering.

I don't think it is a matter of what people think, but of what the natural limits are societies like ours produce. Organizational limits. Trivial limits, really. But cutting deep. So I would say it is a plain mechanical problem. Limits in time, resources, opportunities of participation and debilitation for each individual and interest or ideological sub group. It is astonishing that we can even to sort of simulate such a mode of governance. But it is so so so flawed in its plain mechanical routes and potential of unfolding. Very limited. So things are going to be still kinda chaotic. And chaos always breeds suffering. Because the universe owns you absolute squat.