2020 US Election (Part One)

[Birdjaguar]

If the goal is to reduce the cost of healthcare for all, the the obvious solution lies in this direction:

...
This is when the discussions about courage and character by lawmakers, practitioners and patients moves front and center. These patients tend to be newborns with serious issues and the elderly, who are often quite ill. According to one study (Banarto, McClellan, Kagy and Garber, 2004), 30% of all Medicare expenditures are attributed to the 5% of beneficiaries that die each year, with 1/3 of that cost occurring in the last month of life. I know there are other studies out there that say slightly different things, but the reality is simple: we spend an incredible amount of money on that last year and month.
Is it worth it?...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...-create-50-of-health-care-costs/#206fa54f28d7

If the goal is to reduce income and wealth inequality, then the solution is to tax heavily the top 5%.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

He should have gave an answer like he did in 2016 and mention disappearing premiums. Government spending will increase, but most people will spend less as although they pay more taxes, but spend less on premiums and out of pocket for healthcare.

Superman is the flaw in that argument, and always will be. Superman doesn't agree that the "more in taxes" will be offset by the "less on healthcare" because Superman doesn't buy any healthcare. Now, how many voters think they are Superman? And guess what, telling them "you aren't Superman, you're just stupid, man" isn't likely to win them over.

 

[cardgame]

superman, who doesn't buy any health insurance, specifically doesn't buy any health insurance because health insurance is a) cost prohibitive, b) provides terrible cost-effectiveness if he needs it, c) will not be significantly or even minorly taxed by M4A.

 

[Lexicus]

Whoever is feeding Bernie his talking points needs to be fired. Incredibly easy question to answer. Under Medicare for All total health spending decreases...and no one asks the question of how we pay for the current system. We pay for it by giving a whole lot of money to keep the shareholders and executives of insurance companies rich.

So, because it's government-administrated you pay more taxes...but the vast majority of people save money because they're paying less in taxes than they were in premiums and out-of-pocket costs. And we're no longer paying to line the pockets of the shareholders and executives, and to keep a whole bureaucracy in place whose purpose is to find reasons to deny claims.

 

[Takhisis]

If the goal is to reduce income and wealth inequality, then the solution is to tax heavily the top 5%.

You just have to dig out those graphs that show how when taxes were higher living standards improved. And then dig up the ones for the Gilded Age to show how the US is already miring itself into a similar morass again.

I’ll go off here and suggest something a little different to what some people are thinking... does Pete Buttigieg want to win? Of course he wants to win the White House, but let’s take a closer look at how things have played out.

Trump. He’s got experience in the White House and he’s certainly different from any politician at the national level we’ve seen since... when?

Buttigieg. Young. Placed well so far but not far enough to be considered an uncontested frontrunner.

So what are Buttigieg’s options? He can drop out of the race, but his rise has been above expectations in how Joe Biden has been pushed out of the preordained nominee spot. Dropping out now to help the party just makes him look like a quitter.

Or, he can stay in the race and keep splitting the vote and unintentionally cause trouble. Sanders, Biden, and Bloomberg aren’t going to make a second try at the White House, especially if one is defeated in November.

And Pete Buttigieg doesn’t want to be the one that goes down, so where does that leave him? If he finishes strong but not first in the primary contests, it shows his party that he’s ready for the national stage in the future.

What’s great for Buttigieg also is that if Sanders loses, Warren also takes the fall because she’ll just be remembered as a less-popular copy.

edited for grammar

different from, Mr. edited for grammar

 

[Birdjaguar]

You just have to dig out those graphs that show how when taxes were higher living standards improved. And then dig up the ones for the Gilded Age to show how the US is already miring itself into a similar morass again.

The past is rarely convincing, unfortunately.

 

[Takhisis]

Yeah. The Kingdom of Valencia (back when Spain was a personal union of kingdoms rather than a single unified crown) once expelled its leftover unconverted Muslim population in 1603 (20% of the total population at the time) and it took them a full century to start recovering from that self-inflicted wound. But hey, people keep going on about expelling foreigners.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

superman, who doesn't buy any health insurance, specifically doesn't buy any health insurance because health insurance is a) cost prohibitive, b) provides terrible cost-effectiveness if he needs it, c) will not be significantly or even minorly taxed by M4A.

No, he specifically doesn't buy health insurance because he doesn't want it. If by cost prohibitive you mean he will not pay for something he does not want, then yeah, good call. But when you tell Superman "even though you don't want it and won't pay for it, WE are going to GIVE it to you" he is always going to ask:

A) Who is this "we" that is giving away health insurance? And when you say "USA #1" he is going to say 'wait, that does include me in the we then, and we are doing what now?

B) Where exactly, since now it is established that by we you actually mean me, is all of this "free" health insurance coming from?

C) How do you propose that this stuff we are going to give away is going to be paid for?

I'm not suggesting that there aren't answers to these questions.I'm saying that expecting them not to be asked is based on wishful thinking. Either wishing that Superman is totally dim and won't think to ask, or wishing that Superman is just one individual who only gets one vote. Wishful thinking doesn't win elections.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Whoever is feeding Bernie his talking points needs to be fired. Incredibly easy question to answer. Under Medicare for All total health spending decreases...and no one asks the question of how we pay for the current system. We pay for it by giving a whole lot of money to keep the shareholders and executives of insurance companies rich.

So, because it's government-administrated you pay more taxes...but the vast majority of people save money because they're paying less in taxes than they were in premiums and out-of-pocket costs. And we're no longer paying to line the pockets of the shareholders and executives, and to keep a whole bureaucracy in place whose purpose is to find reasons to deny claims.

This again falls afoul of the Superman problem.

 

[Takhisis]

Wouldn't Superman want help for Kryptonite poisoning?

 

[cardgame]

I am the superman you mention, Tim. I have no health insurance and I don't want health insurance. I do want universal healthcare.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I am the superman you mention, Tim. I have no health insurance and I don't want health insurance. I do want universal healthcare.

Me too. Because I understand that as a taxpayer, universal healthcare would actually cost me less than the current lack of it does, because I already pay for the uninsured and I do it at the ER where it is the most expensive it can possibly be.

See, when I said that there is an answer to Superman's questions I wasn't lying. The problem is that just like @Cloud_Strife I was also not on Sixty Minutes where the question was being asked.

 

[Zkribbler]

... Under Medicare for All total health spending decreases...and no one asks the question of how we pay for the current system. We pay for it by giving a whole lot of money to keep the shareholders and executives of insurance companies rich.

So, because it's government-administrated you pay more taxes...but the vast majority of people save money because they're paying less in taxes than they were in premiums and out-of-pocket costs. And we're no longer paying to line the pockets of the shareholders and executives, and to keep a whole bureaucracy in place whose purpose is to find reasons to deny claims.

Succinctly and accurate put. In the US, free universal health care would not cost money. It would SAVE money.

 

[Farm Boy]

That's the idea. I'm kind of hoping for flu shots at the DMV.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That's the idea. I'm kind of hoping for flu shots at the DMV.

At the DMV? Only if they came up with a five year flu shot. If you tell me I should go to the DMV every year just to get a flu shot I'm telling you I would rather stick forks in my eyes.

 

[Farm Boy]

I'm sure it will all work out.

 

[Socrates99]

The DMV thing would only be if we switched to a UK style system (not really though, theirs is consistently ranked among the best in the world). We'd still get our shots at the same place we normally do. We'd just pay with a different ins card and hopefully wouldn't pay as much.

 

[Farm Boy]

Right. Concentrating it and hoping that the government could run it as efficiently as it runs the DMV is an aspirational goal bathed in optimism. Like for real real. Almost anyone can get a driver's license, if we cut the cynicism down to a manageable level. This is a hopeful goal.

 

[Estebonrober]

Whoever is feeding Bernie his talking points needs to be fired. Incredibly easy question to answer. Under Medicare for All total health spending decreases...and no one asks the question of how we pay for the current system. We pay for it by giving a whole lot of money to keep the shareholders and executives of insurance companies rich.

So, because it's government-administrated you pay more taxes...but the vast majority of people save money because they're paying less in taxes than they were in premiums and out-of-pocket costs. And we're no longer paying to line the pockets of the shareholders and executives, and to keep a whole bureaucracy in place whose purpose is to find reasons to deny claims.

This is basically what I say when asked about it. People here don't like the answer.

 

[Ajidica]

Whoever is feeding Bernie his talking points needs to be fired.

I saw his "Castro had a literacy program" comment and just felt this immediate sinking feeling. Sanders has been around long enough that the Miami Mafia will raise a ruckus if anyone says Castro was anything less than a Hispanic Hitler.

At the DMV? Only if they came up with a five year flu shot. If you tell me I should go to the DMV every year just to get a flu shot I'm telling you I would rather stick forks in my eyes.

Is it me, or have you been extra grumpy lately?