2020 US Election (Part One)

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I believe that if you set out with the intention "change what people perceive to be possible" that you are very unlikely to have much effect in regards to changing what actually is possible.

Republicans in 1954:
“Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.”

Democrats in 2011:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/john-boehner-debt-ceiling_n_893952

Obama offered to put Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid cuts on the table

I suggest everyone read and reflect on this:
http://stopmebeforeivoteagain.org/stopme/chapter02.html

The American political system, since at least 1968, has been operating like a ratchet, and both parties -- Republicans and Democrats -- play crucial, mutually reinforcing roles in its operation.

The electoral ratchet permits movement only in the rightward direction. The Republican role is fairly clear; the Republicans apply the torque that rotates the thing rightward.

The Democrats' role is a little less obvious. The Democrats are the pawl. They don't resist the rightward movement -- they let it happen -- but whenever the rightward force slackens momentarily, for whatever reason, the Democrats click into place and keep the machine from rotating back to the left.

Here's how it works. In every election year, the Democrats come and tell us that the country has moved to the right, and so the Democratic Party has to move right too in the name of realism and electability. Gotta keep these right-wing madmen out of the White House, no matter what it takes.

(Actually, they don't say they're going to move to the right; they say they're going to move to the center. But of course it amounts to the same thing, if you're supposed to be left of center. It's the same direction of movement.)

So now the Democrats have moved to the "center." But of course this has the effect of shifting the "center" farther to the right.

Now, as a consequence, the Republicans suddenly don't seem so crazy anymore -- they're closer to the center, through no effort of their own, because the center has shifted closer to them. So they can move even further right, and still end up no farther from the "center" than they were four years ago.

The ratchet clicks: Nixon. The pawl holds: Carter. Click again: Reagan. And again: Bush Senior (and Iraq War I). The pawl holds: Clinton. Click: Bush Junior and Iraq War II; then another click, and it's Bush Junior triumphant, and God knows what to come.

Donald_Trump_swearing_in_ceremony.jpg
 
FWIW to all of you, Trumps lack of concern for the Cornovirus was the last straw to determine that I will vote for the democratic candidate in the general election no matter what, even if Bernie Sanders loses.

I was never a big Obama fan and didn’t particularly like the way he handled things... but he is a GENIUS compared the current administration.

I don’t think Joe Biden is great either but he would be by far the lesser evil.
 

Left-wing politics is half of a complex, nuanced, scaled, and multi-faceted spectrum of many, many different and distinct socio-political ideologies, doctrines, and stances. What I'm objecting to is "bloc talk," - that is, referring to Left-wing (and Right-wing) politics as each being one single, unified, coherent, solid, and lockstep political bloc.
 
Have you fixed Canadian elections yet? We know our problems well enough. Do you realize how silly and meaningless your statement is?

Again, the best solutions to problems are rarely from the inside, and self-insight and self-knowledge to the degree needed for true self-improvement EXTREMELY rare comes from within - only taking outside criticism and advice is the key in almost all cases. And, for the record, Constitutional and Electoral reform are much bigger and more serious issues actually wrangled about politically in Canada than in the U.S. - where cult worship of the seeming perfect and flawless vision of a convention of elitist, over-educated, out-of-touch, wealthy, and self-righteous White men, only separated in lifestyle from the aristocrats of Europe they so decried by the lack of a formal feudal titles being bestowed, 240 years ago who could not possibly fathom the world today and made provisions to protect slaveholders and such as being a framework that only minimal and timid change and tinkering should be made from.
 
AOC could win now, if only she was old enough to run. The longer she stays in Washington, the more her newness wears off, the more baggage she acquires and the more time the Republicans have to build a propaganda machine against her. Time is not on her side. She better run for POTUS the first time its available, or like Hillary in 2004, and Warren in 2016, she will miss her window. 2024 or 2028 is her window. If she misses those she ain't getting it.

The Democrats are nominating Biden because the Democrats want a return to the golden years. The Republicans have been clamoring for new mean change. The communalism of the post war eras where we bled together in large numbers is faded from memory. Now there's hippies and old social foes and instead of Trust busting Republicans we've got Democrats in the monopoly-on-my-phone camp and too-big-to-fail finance. This doesn't get better without pain, I don't think. A lot of it.
 
Why? Because there are lots of folks campaigning, even here at cfc, to make Biden look like a loser even if he wins the nomination. When people hear 6 months of anti Biden propaganda, it can be hard to reverse that. You should be talking Bernie up not tearing Biden down, but we also know your goal is to enjoy being divisive and nothing more.

You haven't been paying attention. It's not in Bernie's style to be nasty, or even open in attacks. So you don't have to worry about Bernie taking Biden down in such a way.
Trump will, of course. But it showcases how ridiculous it is to try to protect a candidate in the primaries, when no such protection will be afforded in the actual election.
 
I've been saying this kind of thing for a long time, but who'd believe me?
FWIW to all of you, Trumps lack of concern for the Cornovirus was the last straw to determine that I will vote for the democratic candidate in the general election no matter what, even if Bernie Sanders loses.

I was never a big Obama fan and didn’t particularly like the way he handled things... but he is a GENIUS compared the current administration.

I don’t think Joe Biden is great either but he would be by far the lesser evil.
All right, but see the article I'm quoting above.
 
Remember when you guys said "What's the big deal, if Biden gets in I'm sure he'll pass progressive legislation like M4A if Congress votes for it"

dusnqfbwhrl41.jpg

Trump tried to gut the ACA. Failed by a single vote.

And McCain is dead.
 
People need to know that Biden is Scum.

You could try talking Sanders up instead of crapping on Biden.

With attitudes like yours being played out across Twitter etc can't imagine why people went for Biden.

Seriously this attitude only appeals to people who already agree with you. You can't guilt or insult people into supporting your cause. Or seeing crap movies.
 
You could try talking Sanders up instead of crapping on Biden.

With attitudes like yours being played out across Twitter etc can't imagine why people went for Biden.

Seriously this attitude only appeals to people who already agree with you. You can't guilt or insult people into supporting your cause. Or seeing crap movies.
People can do both. If you have a counterargument, try it, instead of tone policing.
 
People can do both. If you have a counterargument, try it, instead of tone policing.

It's just funny because if Trump wins in 2020 Cloud will be complaining about that.

I'm guessing you will to but you come across as a bit less inflammatory.

At the worst Biden won't do much. Trump actively tried to dismantle the ACA. Big difference right?

If Biden wins the nomination trying to torpedo him is actively helping Trump. You may as well vote Trump at that point.

If Bernie supporters don't turn out for Biden and he loses in a close election guess who is getting the blame?

If you turn out and he loses anyway that's on Biden.

If you don't turnout and Biden wins anyway you get made to look really stupid.

This is what I mean by undermining your own cause. If you throw the election or are even percieved to your cause is wrecked. You can have a seat at the table or burn it down. You're not getting the table though unless Sanders turns it around.
 
It's just funny because if Trump wins in 2020 Cloud will be complaining about that.

I'm guessing you will to but you come across as a bit less inflammatory.

At the worst Biden won't do much. Trump actively tried to dismantle the ACA. Big difference right?

If Biden wins the nomination trying to torpedo him is actively helping Trump. You may as well vote Trump at that point.

If Bernie supporters don't turn out for Biden and he loses in a close election guess who is getting the blame?

If you turn out and he loses anyway that's on Biden.

If you don't turnout and Biden wins anyway you get made to look really stupid.

This is what I mean by undermining your own cause. If you throw the election or are even percieved to your cause is wrecked. You can have a seat at the table or burn it down. You're not getting the table though unless Sanders turns it around.
"Biden isn't going to be good but will be better than Trump" is a complex opinion that people can hold. Opinions aren't this binary, shallow thing you posit them to be.

If people want to blame Sanders, they'll straight up invent an excuse. They already did that in 2016. That should be expected.

Like I said. If you object to people having strong feelings about Biden, maybe you should take the time and effort to figure out why.
 
"Biden isn't going to be good but will be better than Trump" is a complex opinion that people can hold. Opinions aren't this binary, shallow thing you posit them to be.

Do you remember 2017? Somehow I expect the usual suspects here at CFC to be salty in November.

Should be entertaining. I'll ready the popcorn.
 
Do you remember 2017? Somehow I expect the usual suspects here at CFC to be salty in November.

Should be entertaining. I'll ready the popcorn.

If you want to take pleasure in other people's measurable, quantafiable suffering, then go ahead and let the mask slip.
 
If you want to take pleasure in other people's measurable, quantafiable suffering, then go ahead and let the mask slip.

You've over played that card it's lost all effect. I don't see Biden actively trying to make your life worse.

There is a German word for it.
 
Remember when you guys said "What's the big deal, if Biden gets in I'm sure he'll pass progressive legislation like M4A if Congress votes for it"

dusnqfbwhrl41.jpg
I'm 99.999% sure that "hasanabi@hsanabithehun" isn't Joe Biden's twitter ID. I'm not saying Biden didn't say it... just that I'm not taking some internet rando with glowing red eyes' word for it. Also:
Has anyone ever said that?
You know...what strikes me about this, is that when folks hear a politician that they don't like say something that's favourable to their cause, they say the politician is a lying scumbag who is not to be trusted and they don't believe a word he says... but when they hear he said something unfavourable to their cause, they take it at face value. Even assuming, for sake of discussion... that Biden actually did say something like that... how do you know he isn't pandering to his more moderate/conservative constituents, the ones, for example, who aren't threatening not to vote for him... while simultaneously fully intending to vote for M4A if it miraculously passes a narrowly Democratic Senate? I mean... that's politics.

I just don't get why any credence is being given to claims made in random internet tweets... its bizarre... I was out to eat with my family this weekend, and a guy sitting across from us heard us talking about corona virus and he asked us if we thought coronavirus was "made up", when we said "no" he then asked if we thought it was "manufactured by someone", when we said "no" he then asked if we knew that "Bill Gates is selling coronavirus"

"Check please!"

Anyway, my wife briefly tried to reason with him while I was looking for the check to get the hell out of there... in response he tried to show us a 40 minute YouTube conspiracy theorist video... complete with the usual claims of some Hebrew, Zionist plot to take over the world and dozens of tweets with people making similar claims as the "evidence" :shake:
 
You've over played that card it's lost all effect. I don't see Biden actively trying to make your life worse.

There is a German word for it.

Refusing to move on the issue of makign healthcare more accessible or affordable isn't making my life worse and sticking with the status quo that is punishing me for daring to have health issues isn't going to continue to make life harder?

What the hell are you talking about? Get a grip

you don't even grasp how **** the situation is for Americans but yet you think you can talk about it with any sort of seriousness or weight behind your words
 
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