Alternate History Thread IV: The Sequel

[Azale]

Isn't that what you were talking about? The huge green-brown thing? The slightly smaller ugly green thing is some puppet government or protectorate of the aforementioned Golden Horde. I don't believe it's been named.

Uighur Khanate?

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Hmm, I think I'd like to call Serbia-Romea, if no one has done that yet.

 

[Flavius Aetius]

I would like to reserve Venice in the Unlightenment timeline and Japan or the Serbian "Byzantine Empire" (as I remember they were a sort of Serbian nation that conquered Constantinople) in the "Arcadia" one. I wuold have liked to reserve Italy in Arcadia, but Matt0088 took it...

I already done that.

 

[Oruc]

You're only applying for them, Thalyi decides if you get it

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Okay, my bad. Maybe I'll go for Poland.

 

[Thlayli]

It's fine, I'm going to consider all the applications. Iggy, you'll probably get Serbo-Romea. Sorry Flavius, Iggy has more experience. But you're welcome to take something else, or work out a compromise with Iggy.

Azale, for doing all that work you'll definitely get Japan.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Would the White Lotus now be less of a secret society and now more of a religious and political organization? Their worship of the Eternal Mother would appeal to the poor, and their role in helping the Xin Ming drive off invaders would definantly get them public support.

Edit: And the idea of Maitreya coming in the future could give hope to peasants. with all of the misfortune that has happened to Xin Ming, I believe the White Lotus could become a becon of salvation and hope for the masses.

 

[Kraznaya]

History of Applications for Prospective NES

Bolded is explicitly confirmed. Let me know if I missed any applications or confirmations.

Holy Roman Empire: Dachs
Japan: Azale, Flavius Aetius, Darkening
Flanders: North King
Arcadia: Kraznaya
Italy: Matt0088
Egypt: Lightfang
Tver: Shadowbound
Xin Ming: Ninja Dude
Chernigov: alex4444
Serbia-Romea: Lord Iggy, Flavius Aetius
"Something in Anatolia" - andis-1

 

[qoou]

Omg, it's that one cool TL again! I'm really wanting to reserve France again... but I doubt I'll be able to be very active .

 

[Thlayli]

@Kras: Grazie.
@ND: No idea. Yet.

Trying to make economy realistic (and also manageable) is currently frustrating my mind. If you have any suggestions, PM them. Development thread is getting closer.

Military is becoming slightly clearer.

I'm planning to have integrated divisions/squadrons for the army and navy, with a general description of the level at which they exist, and a quality description. "Level" is an amalgamation of equipment and technology. "Quality" is an amalgamation of training and leadership. Maintenance costs will increase per Quality, initial purchasing costs will increase per Level. Colonial militias will cost less.

So, a well-trained, archaic army would have a high Quality and a low Level. An example might be a Rajput army. An indifferently led army with modern technology would have a lower Quality and a higher Level. An example might be a Flemish army.

Assuming equal size, it would cost less money to form the first army, and more money to maintain it over time. It would cost more money to form the second army, and less to maintain it. Increasing both the equipment AND the leadership of the military will increase both initial start-up costs AND maintenance costs per turn.

This system allows for customization of the force that one wishes to deploy, based on available resources. Multiple armies of differing Qualities and
Levels can be created, or a standard system for one's entire armed forces. Quality can ONLY be raised to a certain point outside of actual combat. Level is limited only by one's available technology, but nations can CHOOSE to send larger numbers of poorly equipped and led conscripts into battle for a lower cost.

An army or navy can regress in Quality (with all the attendant negative consequences) to save money, but can never decrease in Level. The Level and Quality of troops in the field can be improved, but this will probably take a turn to accomplish, and troops should be out of action. (Quality can increase spontaneously as a result of military action, however. I'm also considering having shattered armies decrease in Quality as opposed to disintegrating entirely.)

Conscription has yet to be determined, but I've got the population metrics from das, so that shouldn't be that hard.

Recent developments in ruleset theory have been advocating "initative points" or "epic points" in Daftpanzer and Birdjaguar's most recent offerings. I may implement something like this...not sure yet.

 

[Kraznaya]

Sounds good. You might want to move on to the development thread, considering what kind of discussion the last few pages of this thread have been about.

I think I am mostly against the idea of "Action-Restriction" Points, since they are formulated from a basket of other statistics already and therefore redundant. Over ambition in actions when the government clearly does not have the economy or the unity to so should be punished by the update, not restricted by statistics. On the other hand, if the player can find a solidly justifiable reason to execute actions that are not reflected directly by such a points system, they would be unable to do so under that system. In that vein, I believe such points are simply training wheels that limit true player freedom to aid the inept.

 

[Azale]

I have to agree with Kraz completely on this. I always though the initiative idea was worth a shot but now that I've seen it in action...I think NES' are better off without it

 

[Ninja Dude]

@ND: No idea. Yet.

Just say yes and we'll all be happy.

 

[North King]

Eww, initiative points suck. Your governing abilities should not be restricted by the stats, but by your abilities.

 

[Thlayli]

I'm interested in using them in the "epic" sense, not in the "initiative" sense. I was thinking about the effect of individuals, like great statesmen, generals, scientists etc, on influencing events in their country. Like Great People in CIV.

So, I was considering giving nations a single point every few turns to produce one national hero. It would most likely be random, so nations can't depend on a brilliant general next turn to save their war effort. They can be banked as well...effects may vary, side effects may include headaches, nausea, and megalomania. You know the drill.

 

[Kraznaya]

That still seems rather arbitrary. I'm of the opinion that leadership quality should depend on the institutions and the player himself, rather than a random stat.

 

[Insane_Panda]

You know, I think I'll jump out of hibernation for this.

Interest expressed in France and Arcadia. I'm sort of reflexively applying for France, but I'm not too enthusiastic about playing a theocratic state.

 

[North King]

I'm interested in using them in the "epic" sense, not in the "initiative" sense. I was thinking about the effect of individuals, like great statesmen, generals, scientists etc, on influencing events in their country. Like Great People in CIV.

So, I was considering giving nations a single point every few turns to produce one national hero. It would most likely be random, so nations can't depend on a brilliant general next turn to save their war effort. They can be banked as well...effects may vary, side effects may include headaches, nausea, and megalomania. You know the drill.

Eugh. Those should be determined by stories and/or player actions. Come on!



Welcome back, Panda!

 

[North King]

Oh, and so far:

Spoiler old :

A lot of sacrifices had to be made, but I'm pretty pleased with how those went. Wasn't sure about some of the very southern islands ownership, so some of them are unclaimed. Going to add cities next, and the placement of some of those will help pinpoint a few suspect borders (incidentally, Thlayli, what style of city do you want?).

A couple of weird things that das should explain: Tver in Africa, Chernigov and Denmark in India.

 

[Kraznaya]

You know, I think I'll jump out of hibernation for this.

Interest expressed in France and Arcadia. I'm sort of reflexively applying for France, but I'm not too enthusiastic about playing a theocratic state.

Three Words: Les Francais Jeunes...


EDIT: Looks sweet, NK. The only error I see so far is that Arcadia owns the Western Sahara.