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Capto Iugulum: 1920 - 1939

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by EQandcivfanatic, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. Ahigin

    Ahigin Emperor

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    Apr 18, 2013
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    Location:
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    Yeah, and what's even better, I have no conscience. Which means, if proletarist cause stops consisting of several isolated countries across the globe, I may just as well join them. Or, what the heck, even the moralists, although this bandwagon is too crowded by me.
     
  2. theDright

    theDright King

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
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    To: Jacksonia, Florida
    CC: Those Concerned
    From: Argentina


    This dispute over the Colorado River is truly the stupidest and most unnecessary conflict. Just last year, Jacksonia and Florida negotiated a compromise on this very issue. Now apparently, the Floridian government realizes that they sent an incompetent negotiator last year. The declaration of war of the Floridian government upon Jacksonia is criminal; Jacksonia has shown completely willing to negotiate the issue, and sending young men to die in the deserts and mountains along the Colorado is pointless. Renegotiate the terms peacefully.
    To those who claim that anti-proletarism demands this, the position of the Argentine government is that socialist political parties, as represented in Jacksonia and Vinland, and proletarist dictatorships, as represented in the UPRA and Scandinavia, are cut from completely different cloth. One is just another political ideology, which every state of democracy and republic should support. As long as democratic republicanism is preserved, why shouldn't an ideology which supports protections for workers be tolerated? The other is a totalitarian ideology, mandating class warfare and an illiberal equality which is detestable.
    We support the Jacksonian government wholeheartedly on this issue, and will support Florida entirely if they return to negotiate with their neighbors peacefully. Floridian problems with Proletarism have come from their eastern border, not their western. To avoid causing unnecessary suffering, we believe that this issue is best left to Jacksonia and Florida. Foreign aid from outsiders, whether military or financial, should be prohibited entirely. Argentina holds in contempt any government or person who gives these Nation the tools to kill each other over petty issues.

    To: Brazil
    From: Argentina


    The legal framework I refer to is the current state of affairs, in terms of formal agreements, between our nations. Argentina hopes that Brazil still views us as in a state of defensive alliance, as well as willing to cooperate militarily on issues affecting the Americas. However, recent Brazilian acts, such as threatening those who opposed the current Nicaraguan tyranny with war, surprised us. If Brazil remains as committed to democratic republics as it says it is, then it shouldn't condone unconstitutional acts and vicious suppression of democracy and republic in Nicaragua. It shouldn't condone the unwillingness of the Chilean government to create a legislature.

    While Argentina views the implementation of full-bodied Moralism, as outlined by the Papacy, as illiberal, unconstitutional, and incompatible with New World Republic, a Moralist political party in another Republic is none of our business, unless it tries to erode the means by which the Republic functions. Argentina has not condemned the Colombians, the Uruguayans, or the Venezuelans for their Moralist governments, as their Republic appears to continue to function. If these Moralist governments suppress their political opponents, rig elections, and unconstitutionally change the government, then they will be rightly condemned for it. If Brazil, for some reason, elects a Moralist government, we will tolerate insofar as it preserves the Constitution and Republic which Brazil has. But Moralism, unconstrained by legislature, by consititution, and by liberal guarantees? A tyranny; as bad as any that proletarist fanatics, bloody-fisted warlords, or delusional autarch can concoct.

    As for Peru, the 3rd largest economy in South America and a stable consitutional monarchy with robust political parties should not have to want for defensive alliance. The Peruvians are just as concerned with the apparent introduction of Old World religious fundamentalism and theocracy as any Monarch, Republic, or Nation of the Americas should be. Protection of the peace of the Americas demands it. Protection of the Democratic, Liberal, and Republican Principles of the Americas demands it. The recent alignment with a nation which just 5 years ago supposedly murdered your ambassador, and who maintains many elements of racial suppression that you condemned just last year in South Africa, is further cause for concern. Recognizing the Cuban military tyranny as legitimate is further cause for concern. International politics here in the Americas can be messy, but your are giving serious mixed signals. As for our recent military buildup, we are just trying to take a more balanced approach to perceived threats, as imaginary as they may be.

    To: Pius X
    From: Argentine Old Church

    Well it appears to us that you are just permitting Church-managed usury. Making something unusurious by seemingly redefining usury in order for the Church's profit is disappointing. We will nevertheless hope that 'measures to prevent usury' are as effective as you say.
    OOC: Well you might want to get EQ to correct it in the update. I tend to take news reports of new public policies as truth.

    To: Spain
    From: Argentina


    Argentina will send teams to the Balompie World Championship.

    To: Brazil, Vinland
    From: Argentina


    Argentina would like to invite one or two teams from your nations to demonstrate your variants of Varukorgboll via a government-sponsored tour of our nation. International competition in athletics should be encouraged.

    To: Mozambique
    CC: World
    From: Argentina


     
  3. qoou

    qoou Emperor

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    Colombia is still the world's largest crude oil exporter. Just saying.
     
  4. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

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    OOC: First, that reply was OOC.

    IC:

    TO: Argentina
    FROM: Brazil


    We have never threatened or even considered removing the alliances in place with your government. We have not threatened anyone with war, only to aid those nations we protect and the people within those nations who have chosen this form of government. Democracy comes in many forms, as our two nations show, and yet when a new form arises in the 20th century it is immediately shot down, while proletarism runs rampant in political systems across the Americas.

    We have not aligned ourselves with the United States of America. We simply support them in their efforts to contain proletarism. We have not forgotten the murder of Terence Glas, after all it brought about the withdrawal of Brazil from the Accord, so do not make such false claims again. Brazil is racially and sexually equal. Our democracy is one of the strongest in the world, if not the strongest, and we have the lowest amount of prejudice that we have seen anywhere else in the Americas. Moralism is not a threat to democracy, it is an extension of it. We do not impose religion on one group or another, no, the Moralist Parties of Brazil simply work within a framework of their own religious freedom to establish a better state for everyone. If Argentina cannot see that, and indeed if Argentina does not have religious politicians working for the betterment of their people through the works of Christ, then perhaps our friendship should come to an end. It is not the place of the Accord to say that Nicaragua is undemocratic, when the people themselves wildly support the efforts of the Moralist president. Brazil sees this as the will of the people. Brazil has always defended the will of the people.

    Peru has the largest land force in South America and has consistently been an opponent of Brazil's. Their alignment towards Argentina, and the Argentine expansion of their fleet to combat our own, truly breaking the treaties the British signed related to certain ships, is causing fear to rise within the Brazilian government. We are worried that this new schism being condoned by the Argentine government, along with the anti-Moralist leanings of Peru and your government, may lead to attacks on Uruguay, Chile, or even Brazil itself. If you want to maintain peace in South America, the both of you must consider how your military expansion is affecting relations.

    Brazil calls for Peru to reduce its standing army to a size comparable to Argentine and Brazilian forces, and for Argentina to slow the expansion of its fleet. There is no need for a major naval expansion. Brazil is not conducting one, why should you? Unless you seek war?

    ~~~

    On the subject of universities: Brazilian universities have long been funded beyond the needs of our own population to give the greatest educational environments possible, but that is not the reason for the surplus of funding. Our funding goes into the sciences and arts for international students, particularly from the developing world, allowing those individuals to return home with world class educations at no cost to themselves. Brazil has been educating foreigners for over a decade, and in doing so has attracted some of the brightest minds in the world to work together on the leading problems of the present. This is why Brazil is great. This is why Brazil is number one.
     
  5. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    7,206
    OOC: You should develop a more critical mind then, and more specifically, learn to distinguish between the offiical policy presented in the news, and the rumourmill that comes afterwards as commentary on that policy.

    Absolute truth is not the way the news gets around to the commons either in real life or it seems here. The reference to usury was entirely the concerns of people on the ground who just like in real life are subject to rumour and misinformation.

    For example to help you contextualise, we can expect misinformation with regards to that concordat I signed, with certain ill-informed parties (or parties with vested interests against the Church) likely I would guess, to suggest erroneously in the rumourmill that the moneys mandated in article 14 will flow off to Rome and then on to other powers, when the reality is that the Catholic (naturally I can't say where the protestant portion goes) portion of tax moneys goes to the German hierarchy for use in Germany, for Germans, period.
     
  6. theDright

    theDright King

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    605
    OOC: Oh, right.

    IC:

    To: Brazil
    From: Argentina


    Argentina was completely unaware of your protection of Nicaragua. Indeed, no one was, as the Moralist government had come to power after the president used the military to dissolve the legislature and imprison his political opponents. Democracy uses majority decision-making, while allowing compromise between those of radically different opinions. The President was elected yes, but so was the legislature. You really think the people are going to express any dissent when under martial law? As we have said before, we have no problem when Moralist political candidates or parties are elected into governments governed by republican constitutions, as has been done in Colombia, Uruguay, and Venezuela, or as it may be done in Brazil. When a politician uses any ideology, Moralist or not, to subvert the constitutional and republican rule of a nation, as has been done in Chile and Nicaragua, other republican democracies must speak out. Just as Brazil did when Scott seized the United States. Just as Brazil did when the UPRA united from rampaging proletarists.

    Containing the evils of Proletarist dictatorship is something every republican democracy should desire. We did not accuse you of forgetting Terence Glas; we apologize if that is what you inferred and took offence. We also didn't accuse you of being racially or sexually unequal, but as has been seen just this year, the United States' still is far behind on that issue.

    Moralism as an extension of democracy is to be welcomed, if it functions as Brazil describes. As long as it does not erode the constitutional, democratic, and republican traditions of Brazil or any other nation, Moralist political parties in Brazil are none of our, or anybody elses, concern. Argentina has already implemented taxes on wasteful and sinful luxuries in previous administrations; our politicians' religious perspectives inform the moral components of their decisions everyday. Our churches have the freedom to practice Christ's works and preach the Gospel without restriction. We hope we maintain our alliance and friendship, which has endured so long.

    Claiming that Nicaragua is democratic, because the President is ruling with 'the will of the people' is confusing to us. As we have heard, the Proletarist dictators in charge of Jamaica and the UPRA also rule with the widespread support of the people's will. Are they democratic as well? We argue, no, they are not. We also argue that Chile and Nicaragua are not as well, not until they give the people what they want; namely a return of an elected legislature and consititutional government.

    Yes, Peru has largest land army. Yes, the Argentine fleet has been expanding, but to combat your own? I don't think the Argentine navy has ever combatted the Brazilian. The navies of South America are its' shields; as for the expansion, it still is much smaller than Brazil's own fleet. As for the cruisers, we have not bought the construction rights, nor have we sold these ships to any other nation. As the only modern cruiser designed by a nation which would have sold us anything, a full navy with destroyers, but no cruisers, is nonsensical. The BRASDIC/BRISDIC 'Sonar' devices remain your knowledge only; we have no knowledge of their manufacture.

    As for schismatics, mandating doctrine is not the business of the Argentine government. Freedom of religion allows people to practice as they choose, just as it is in Brazil, right?

    As for anti-Moralism, that is a political movement, concerned and contained within Argentina only. Just as Moralism argues for greater governmental involvement in religion and vice versa, anti-Moralism would advocate that the current involvement is enough. I don't see any anti-Moralist sentiment in our government; the Argentine government has been strictly neutral with regards to such matters. All the Harkness government has promised is that freedom of religion will not be constrained; the Argentine government will not proselytize an official doctrine.

    Argentina will take into consideration Brazilian worries of military expansion; Brazil must take into consideration both Argentine and Peruvian worries of co-option of Moralism to destroy constitutionalism, democracy, and republicanism in the Americas.

    We can not answer for Peru, but Argentina has been trailing Brazilian naval expansion. We will slow our expansion, if it will assuage your concerns. But the defence of the Americas should not rest upon one nation's sailors or soldiers alone.

    OOC: I'll try to make my OOC comments more noticeable in the future. It doesn't happen very often that I mislabel or misinterpret but here we are.

    @Jehoshua

    I didn't mean that I myself was uncritical. But generally, the Financial Changes section of the update is pretty free of misinformation. I expect the EP change in the Random Economic Fluctuations to be the actual EP change for example.
     
  7. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

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    TO: Argentina
    FROM: Brazil


    We only ask that this anti-Moralist rhetoric be contained until such a time as it has been proven in practical use by the popular will of the people. Proletarism has been used to commit genocide in the Americas, Moralism has not. We want peace in our time. We want no arms race. Brazil could quickly become a threatening military force, but we choose the high road. We hope that you, too, will choose the high road. Argentina is more than capable of defending itself with currently levels of military force and anything extra would threaten Brazilians and Chileans. You must see this how we see it.

    Either way, we ask that Moralism be given time to prove its good intentions. Proletarism has always been an ideology of theft and denial of rights. Do not lump us together.

    Thanks you.
     
  8. Nuka-sama

    Nuka-sama See ya! It has been a fun decade!

    Joined:
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    My orders will be late more than likely due to diplomacy and such
     
  9. J.K. Stockholme

    J.K. Stockholme Right Opposition

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Occitania would require one amendment before being able to sign this treaty. We believe that it is unfair to the French states that they be obliged into the defence of Germany if an isolated conflict far removed from us, such as in the Balkans (OOC: looking at Croatia-Hungary), were to oblige us into said war. Occitania affirms its cordial relations with Germany, and may join such a conflict if our parliament and monarchy felt so and Germany requested such assistance, but we insist we retain the right for future governments to determine their course of action in such a circumstance, and not be faced with breaking the treaty if they decline to participate.

    Therefore, as Occitania does believe this treaty has value as a method of peace in western Europe, we believe Germany should be a special signatory, and act as a guarantor of the treaty, but not require French or Dutch-Flemish reciprocation. That is to say, they shall declare their willingness to protect with arms all the other signatories without said signatories being required to act the same towards Germany (they are free to assist Germany if they choose to though). We think this retains all that is valuable in the treaty per Dauphine and Orleans rightful request Germany be included, and perhaps also make Burgundy feel better with its terms.

    Thus the treaty would reread as follows:

    1. All participant states recognize the legitimacy and borders of all other participant states excepting areas where plebiscites apply under the treaties which ended the Rhine-Rhone War.

    2. The signatory state of the Imperial German Union will act as a guarantor of the independence and peace of all its signatories, and will consider an attack on any of its signatories as an attack on itself. This does not apply to attacks on colonial holdings by other colonial powers or intervention in internal unrest.

    3. All other participant states agree that an attack on one member state, excepting the Imperial German Union, is an attack on all. This does not apply to attacks on colonial holdings by other colonial powers or intervention in internal unrest.

    4. Members are exempt from involvement if the other member state is the aggressor nation in the conflict.
     
  10. The Farow

    The Farow NESer

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    Normandy will sign the Occitanian version of the treaty. The concerns they have raised are shared by us as well.
     
  11. christos200

    christos200 Never tell me the odds

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    We will sign the Occitanian version of the treaty.
     
  12. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    GOD IS WITH US, LITTLE MICE. DEATH TO WHITEY!
     
  13. Circuit

    Circuit Writing Letters

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    My apologies for my absence. My DC internship is wrapping up, and I leave in a week, so I've had a lot of unfinished business to attend to, and this was an unusually busy week on the Hill. Hopefully when I return home things will get back to normal. I don't think my orders will make the deadline, but I'll likely still get them in while EQ accepts new orders.

    Also...

     
  14. Milarqui

    Milarqui Deity

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    Granada, Andalucía, España, Europa
    You've got a problem with my ideas?

    Then you'd best prepare yourself for Spain's new science-fiction novel, the best after La guerra de los mundos...
     
  15. Grandkhan

    Grandkhan Telvanni Master Wizard

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    99% sure we already had that.
     
  16. theDright

    theDright King

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    OOC: @Milarqui not sure if you missed this

     
  17. Azale

    Azale Deity

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    Orders sent.

    Also, we appreciate Argentina's deep concern for our political decision making.
     
  18. Milarqui

    Milarqui Deity

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    Yes, I saw that. Didn't know that you wanted an answer.

    To: Argentina, Brazil, Cataluña
    From: Spain


    Your national teams will be welcome to join the 1934 Balompié World Cup!
     
  19. EQandcivfanatic

    EQandcivfanatic Zailing Captain Retired Moderator

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    No more order revisions are accepted beyond this point. New orders will still be welcomed. Once again, if you're claiming a nation, it doesn't become official and all diplomacy is to be disregarded until you've actually sent orders.
     
  20. Nailix

    Nailix Damn!

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    Will try to get orders in after work but not sure if that'll be to late.
     

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