CBob03 Germans in Tu-tus

Well, we probably won't be using it for the war, if that's what you're suggesting. We may be able to make maybe 6 for the war (assuming 20 turns of preparation) if we try, but then, they can't do much better than the archers (who'll advance under a spearman guard). If we do defend the horseman with spearman, their extra move is a hindrance to progress since they only move 1 space a turn and they retreat a lot in battle and cost more than archers. The good things are that they won't die on us as much and lead to knights and cavalry.

But it IS a good idea to get them in case we'll have a different war soon. It will connect us with Arabia's lands and our future iron source (we'll seize theirs). In a defensive war, it's really annoying to the AI if you keep attacking their attackers and running back into the cities, before they can actually arrive in a position to attack your city. Horsemen are good there.
 
So, before my turn, a quick recap

We have
8 Cities
1 Settler
5 Workers
9 Warriors
5 Archers
2 Curraghs

Science is at 80% towards CoL
We have tech parity with everyone


Turn 0, 1000bc
Change the build in Heinz Chur to a Rax. Settler and vArcher both go to the spot NE of the dyes. Georg Hajdu has high food output, so it switches to a Worker. Trying to balance military buildup and expansion outwards. Also, change the build in Richard Wagner from a spear to an archer.

IBT:
Sumerians boot us
A barb horse + the barb warrior attack our rWarrior. Both die, promoting the warrior to veteran status.
Heinz Friedrich Hartig Settler -> Settler (6)
Some wonder building commences

Turn 1, 975bc
Drop lux tax back down to 0, CoL due in 6 @ 100% science
Herbert Brun is founded just NE of the dyes.
The settler out of HFH heads towards the spot S of the gold mountain to the north of Richard Wagner
Check the trades, and bpth the Japanese and the Incans have Construction and Philo. Crap crap crap. This is bad. We have no trades up on either of them.
Exploring meets a Celtic warrior wandering through Incan territory, they are two techs behind us.

IBT:
Richard Wagner Archer -> Archer (3)
George Hajdu Worker -> Rax (7) (chop due in 1)
An Arabian vArcher pops the hut while ours is right next to it

Turn 2, 950bc
More exploration, nothing valuable revealed.

IBT:
A barbhorse rides out and nails our worker by Micheal von Beil :angrysmiley:
One of the barbs from the hut attacks the Arabian Archer, dealing one point of damage, while the other two fortify
Moritz Eggert Worker -> Warrior (5)

Turn 3, 925bc
More exploring, Archer flees from the barbs from the hut

IBT:
Ernst Ritcher Rax -> Archer (7)
Our curragh heading west defeats the two barb curraghs

Turn 4, 900bc
Cut research down 10%, CoL still due in 2

IBT:
Another barb curragh kills itself on ours, promoting ours to a 3/5 health elite!
Richard Wagner Archer -> Worker (2) (coincides with growth, will allow science to continue to run at max spending w/o lux slider)
HFH Settler -> Settler (6)
Helmut Lachenmann Worker -> Rax (10)

Turn 5, 875bc
Felix Draeseke founded
Our warrior in the NW meets a Greek warrior. They are down 2 techs.
Cut another 10% on CoL research

IBT:
CoL comes in. Aim research at Literature at max. Will be due in 13 turns. The libraries will help for some early culture (never a bad thing) plus some excellent research capabilities, and literature is usually a monopoly tech.
Heinz Chur Rax -> Archer (10)

Turn 6, 850bc
An archer of ours whacks a barb outside of Richard Wagner
Scouting reveals another riverside-cow (surrounded by BGs) SW of Georg Hajdu. Our settler from HFH heads down thatta way.

IBT:
Inca declares on the Greeks
Arabia kills the barb from the hut. Now all three barbs have been accounted for.
Richard Wagner Worker -> Archer (3)
Georg Hajdu Rax -> Archer (7)

Turn 7, 825bc
Change build in Moritz Eggert to a Rax to soak up a chop
Some trading commences
CoL to the Incans for Construction and 6 gold
CoL to the Japanese for Philo and 77 gold (all they had)
Map Making to the Osmans for 85 gold (all they had) (empties their coffers, so they cant trade for Philo, CoL, or Construction)
CoL to the Sumerians for a Worker and 59 gold (all they had) (empties their coffers, so they cant trade for Philo or Construction)
Map Making to the Greeks for 125 gold (all they had) (empties their coffers, so they cant trade for Philo, CoL, Polytheism or Construction)
All of this gives us tech parity, and puts 430 gold into our bank, to fund our negative spending (-6gpt right now, with 2 more cities still producing barracks)

IBT:
Moritz Eggert Rax -> Archer (10)

Turn 8, 800bc
More exploration

IBT:
Turn 9, 775bc
No idea what happened, but I somehow managed to miss both of these

IBT:
Richard Wagner Arhcer -> Worker (2) (coincides with growth, allows lux tax to stay at 0)
Felix Draeseke Warrior -> Worker (5)
The Greeks complete the Pyramids

Turn 10, 750bc
Franz Ignaz von Beecke founded E of the SW cow


Herbert Brun will never have shield potential, so the chop taking place outside of it should go towards the Catapult instead of a Rax or something similar.

We have 11 cities

Our military count is
10 warriors, 2 exploring 8 MPs
2 Curraghs, one east and one west
8 Workers and one slave
8 Archers, 3 inbetween us and the Arabs, one in transit, and 4 MPs

Research @ 100% gets us Literature in 7 at a loss of 7gpt
We are tied for tech leaders, and have CoL, Philo, and Construction over most civs

Georg Hadju’s Archer could be switched to a Settler, as could Richard Wagner’s Worker and Heinz Chur’s Archer. This is a call between military vs. peaceful expansion.

cbob_750bc_screenie.JPG


All the dots for city locations are tentative. Discuss them. The circled horses is also a city location, I just didnt want to hide them behind some dot. The iron and wines are pointed out as goals for our conquest of Arabia, though its worth noting there is another iron NW of the Oasis in the desert circled by blue and white. The area that is circled by blue and white, I pondered and pondered, but could not come up with a good dotmap of it. Halp!

And the save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/114672/CBob03_BC_750.SAV\

If anything is unclear, lemme know and I'll clarify. Also, helpful critiques are welcomed.
 
Oh no! I thought we were going after Philosophy and the Republic. While 7 turns on literature left is good, we might have gotten the slingshot! We still can, of course, but now it is very unlikely. And then I read another few lines and notice people have already gotten Philosophy. Good choice! Though I guess you may have forgotten that we wanted the slingshot, or you saw the AI had it?

Good trading. Most advanced, the richest.... Nice.

I want to have military expansion and settling. Because most of our towns have high fpt, we can't really handle military only. So if we alternate, we should be okay. Herbert Brun can't really make a catapult like that. Only 1 catapult would probably be more of a drag during the war. It's best to stick with a worker.

Oh, and we may want to let one of our towns grow into a city. You respond, "In despotism?!" I say, "Well, at least now you have a military factory." If you do want to do this, pick Richard Wagner since it already has a granary (and river) and high shields.

I should say that the land NE of our empire (floodplains and mountains) should be settled to maximize food and mountain coverage. That means we'd be settling on deserts next to the mountains. We'd have to CXC a bit of it, but it's okay. And we'd have a short term bunch of worker factories, so it wouldn't be too bad to do this. In the end, though, we'd have to rush the aqueducts if these settlements are to be useful to our empire. So that would be two sites, one is next to the oasis and the other CXC from it. The plains site SE will be next to a river, of course. I'd say 2N 1 NE from Moritz Eggert.

An attack on Arabia would probably come from it's southeast to avoid the wine road, which they'd use to annoy us with hidden archers.

And I notice that none of you are going to the next page in the Wikipedia article. It's kinda odd if most of our cities have composer (last)names that only go to A to F....
 
Yeah, in 975bc either the Japanese or the Incans (not sure which) got Philosophy, while we still had 6 turns left on CoL. So after 6 more turns of research, there was no point in going for Philosophy, and Literature is always a good monopoly tech in addition to giving libraries.

For Herbert Brun, since the Cat is not a good idea, I believe you can change the build to a worker, tell one of the workers to stop chopping the forest, then the worker in HB will complete, change the build to something useful, and then the chop would complete.

I've been trying to keep all the towns at size 4 because we were going at max research and 4 is the largest they can get without needing the lux slider. Once the dyes are connected, letting Wagner grow would be an excellent choice, since at size 5 it would have 2-turn Archers.

As for the city names, I planned on going to the next page, but Felix Draeseke and Franz Ignaz von Beecke were some stunning names that I couldnt pass up.
 
Sharp trading, SipTheSoup!

Roster
CommandoBob
Tribute
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mr_2_you - on deck
ansar - warming up

I see we have 8 Archers.

How many cities do the Arabs have?

Will 8 Archers be enough (probably not; we'll need a Spear or two for defense from their Archers).

Do we plan to capture or raze the Arab cities? And if we raze, can we get cities there before another AI does?

EDIT:
Yeah, I'm getting ready for the Arab war, but I don't want to attack before we are ready. If we're ready now, let's get units in place before we declare. And if we're not ready, let's get ready.

Random Thought
And just to throw this idea out: can we out-settle the Arabs and surround them with good sturdy German cities? We've got two settler pumps, I think. If we can choke the Arabs out, or at least stop their initial growth, we might want to consider doing that while we delay our war plans. I'm not real sure about this idea; it could be more trouble than it is worth.
 
Mecca (or its german replacement) looks like it might be a good place for our forbidden palace.

we should consider building a galley or two to search for another continent.

cities with granaries should build settlers/workers. cities with barracks should build military. very few cities should have both a granary and a barracks due to the maintenance costs that eat up our gold in despotism.

just my thoughts.
 
We won't be able to outsettle them since that would also require a cultural shield of some sort, so we can stop them from crossing our borders. And even then, they should have access to the coast and use galleys.

I don't think 8 archers is enough. Some are MP right now, so we need units to replace them at the very least. And spearmen defenders would be nice for our attackers.

Most Arab towns ought to be kept, especially Mecca. It'll save us some time and give us a spot to heal. Also, we keep the roaded tile that the town is on, which we'll use to access the other towns faster. Also, we won't be wasting their population; once they're defeated, their citizens=our citizens in productivity, commerce... with no potential for war weariness.
 
Tribute said:
Most Arab towns ought to be kept, especially Mecca.
Click to expand...

given that we have 8 archers, how do you plan to garrison enough troops to prevent a flip in a captured city AND maintain momentum in the war?
 
I think I'll be lurking in this thread. I'm only just making the move up to Monarch, and I've already gotten some good ideas on what to do better!

Just one comment: You folks really do need to name some of your core cities after FAMOUS German composers. It would be so sad to see Beethoven and J.S. Bach as science farms out in the hinterlands while the likes of Helmut Lachenmann constitute your core.
 
anaxagoras said:
Just one comment: You folks really do need to name some of your core cities after FAMOUS German composers. It would be so sad to see Beethoven and J.S. Bach as science farms out in the hinterlands while the likes of Helmut Lachenmann constitute your core.
Click to expand...

lurker's comment: Yeah! There's also a few more like Mozart, Brahms, Strauss, Shubert, and Schumann who are very well known. ;)
 
@anaxagoras: I laughed at the thought of it. I agree about those names.

@mr 2 you: Simple. The towns won't flip. Arabia will probably not have made a temple, so once we capture Mecca, we already have more culture than them. At the same time, since they haven't built temples, their other borders won't surround the captured towns (we will get Mecca first, after all). And they have low population to boot. It'll be safe. At most, and this is very unlikely already, there will be one flip. But we probably wouldn't stop building archers, so it wouldn't be a problem. I'd think that waiting an extra two turns to advance is more damaging to the advance (one extra to heal from 1/4 to 4/4 and one extra to move onto the road to the next town).
 
The Arabs have 4 cities (I believe)

I think we would be able to totally remove the Arabians from their territory, then re-settle with our stuff faster than any other AIs could. Instead of trying to expand around them, it is probably best just to take em out.

The map is Pangea, correct? So we arent going to need any boats to explore other continents, although sending out more to offset barb attacks might be a good idea.
 
If mr_2_you (or another swapper) can play sometime today through Friday, and we get in good discussion time. A swap could be beneficial. Who is available? I think I would be, but I've played too recently.

What about you CBob? You were just skipped, maybe we could turn it into a swap instead?

Skips seem so cruel! Why don't we just have swaps or shifts (move people behind you forward on the list as is appropriate)?
 
i won't be able to play until friday either, so why don't you just keep it tusker?
 
Strategy:
Long - Win by culture victory
Medium - control iron, horses, and salt, plus four+ luxuries, know everyone, take the tech lead, eliminate Arabs.
Short - continue REX, prepare for Arab war.

Military Strength

08 Workers
10 Warriors
08 Archers
02 Curraghs

City Builds

HFH (4) grows in 1, Settler in 1.
Georg Hajdu (3) grows in 2, Archer in 3.
Heinz Chur (3) grows in 6, Archer in 4.
Moritz Eggert (1) grows in 3, Archer in 8.
Helmut Lachenmann (HL) (1) grows in 5, rax in 5.
Ernst Richter (2) grows in 7, Archer in 1.
Herbert Brun (1) grows in 1, cat in 11
Felix Draeseke (FD) (1) grows in 5, Worker in 5.
Franz Ignaz von Beecke (Beecke) (1) grows in 7, worker in 10.
RW (4) grows in 2, Worker in 2.
Michael von Biel (1) grows in 8, Archer in 8.

City Build Recap

Catapult 1 (Herbert Brun)
Archer 5 (Ernst Richter, Moritz Egger, Heinz Chur, Georg Hadju, MvB)
Worker 3 (Franz Ignaz..., FD, RW)
Settler 1 (HFH)
Rax 1 (Helmut Lachenmann)

We are in despotism at 100% science (-7gpt), Lit in 7. We have 410 gold.

We are at peace with everyone.
We are at tech parity with Inca and Japan and ahead of everyone else by at least two techs.
Our richest rivals are Japan (115), Inca (99), and Celts (61).
We have Embassies with Arabia and Inca.
The others are at best 'unimpressed by' our cultur, and a few are dismissive or disdainful of us!

Pre-turn:

We're a little short on Workers.
MvB is building a reg. Archer. I change this to a Harbor.
Change Herbert Brun to a rax (it will complete this IT).
why aren't we letting FD grow? It's currently building Workers in sync with its growth from 1-2.
There are three Archers wandering around - what is their mission? Should I send them off exploring, or should I start forming a stack for the assault on Mecca?

Speaking of war, I'd like to raze the Arabian cities. Slaves are nice to have around (free upkeep!). What does the rest of the team think?
 
Vote NO on Proposition Razing. I think that there is not enough Arab population to get much out of razing. At best, Mecca would give 2 slaves (size 5 before capture, most unlikely). They probably won't have any others > size 3 since upon war, and they'll just whip themselves down. Of course, that is a reason against keeping those towns, but then again, since the whipping unhappiness passes on, if we raze one to prevent having whipping unhappy town, we raze the rest. We'd still only get about 4-6 workers (from their current + razed workers). Now if we waited till the Middle Ages..., that number grows quite quickly. But if you want free upkeep workers, just prevent the captured towns from growing and build workers there. Since they ought to stay foreign (unless we are unlucky and they assimilate (how ironic)), we'll get free upkeep slaves, er... foreign workers.

After literature, are we going for the Republic? The AI have gotten Monarchy and Construction, so all that's left (for the advanced trio) is The Republic and Currency. And I suppose we could always buy Currency (or trade for it with the Republic).

Also, I think I must improve on my pre-turn strategy posts. :)
 
I would lean towards Currency next (the AI researches it last, so it's a good monopoly tech), but I doubt we can trade it for Republic.
 
That's true too. We won't be revolting for a while (Think of revolting as an adjective there.). There is no advantage to get The Republic early when we can get it cheapened after the AI take it. Besides, if we get Feudalism first, there are no more problems. (It may even be our free tech!)
 
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