Christian facists on the march?

[ComradeDavo]

I'd just like to point out that I haven't actually called anyone a fascist. What I have done is point out similarities.

@ComradeDavo I did not mean to seem dismissive towards what you are talking about (if my first post sounded that way). I agree that authoritarians (in this case I just mean those who support a government which regulates or directs behavior) are all authoritarian while totalitarians are all totalitarian. I mainly quibble with the use of the term fascism in ways which make become popular and begin to change its definition in a way it should not go. How about the common authoritarianism is depends on the context and situation perhaps.

Thats fair enough

 

[GenMarshall]

Well, OK, but no ones bashing you yet, although give it time, you've been in an oddly confrontational mood recently, it's most unlike you.

Well, I can assure you that I am not in a confrontational mood right now. I am just pointing out the fact that not ALL Christians support Fascism. Of course I do admit that we do have a few bad apples, but it does not mean it ruins the rest of the bunch.

Don't forget that some of us place tolerance above judgement, there is some maturity in the deal,...

I do agree on that statement and that there should be more tolerance towards other people and not judge the individual based on the wrong doings of a certain minority within a group.

and as a good Christian you should turn the other cheek. It's not for you to become angered by the statements of the unbelievers, but to tolerate, people are able to judge stupid criticism far better than you give them credit for.

Not angered, but offended. I am the one who does not like to be lumped into a category that I am against in the first place. Its the individual that should matter, not the actions of what has been done by a minority in a group. I believe that most Christians are appalled at Fascism, I do acknowlage that a minority of Christians support Fascism.

I have noticed that some people just focuses on the negative aspects of a group instead of the positive aspects.

 

[Sidhe]

Nah, The Muslims would just cry out for the blood of the poster whom criticized their faith .

They would? Have you any proof of this? I have met many Muslims who would welcome criticism about their faith and in fact have some criticism of their own, your confusing fundementalists with liberal Muslims, they certainly don't place their faith on some sort of unassailable platform, any more than Catholicism does, views change; please if you want to chastise others for being judgemental about your faith, kindly refrain from making judgements about others. For one thing it's off topic for the other it's uninformed, and for another it's hypocritical.

Well, I can assure you that I am not in a confrontational mood right now. I am just pointing out the fact that not ALL Christians support Fascism. Of course I do admit that we do have a few bad apples, but it does not mean it ruins the rest of the bunch.

Absolutely and this thread is a troll, but a subtle one.

I do agree on that statement and that there should be more tolerance towards other people and not judge the individual based on the wrong doings of a certain minority within a group.

No argument there, you expect the same in return.

Not angered, but offended. I am the one who does not like to be lumped into a category that I am against in the first place. Its the individual that should matter, not the actions of what has been done by a minority in a group. I believe that most Christians are appalled at Fascism, I do acknowlage that a minority of Christians support Fascism.

I think we're precisely in agreement, suggesting that all within one faith system agree with a few bad apples is pointlessly misrepresenting those who follow a better way.

I have noticed that some people just focuses on the negative aspects of a group instead of the positive aspects.

Hit the nail on the head, but you did just do that, so be careful.

 

[Little Raven]

No it isn't. I pay $1,000 per month in property taxes which go directly to the schools. It is not government subsidies. I don't know if you live in the US, but here we fought a Revolutionary War over "no taxation, no representation!" That stands for vouchers. Then, they can do whatever they want in the schools.

You're confusing a multitude of different issues here.

Property taxes belong to the government. Some taxes may be earmarked for certain things, but the Supreme Court has held time and time again that once the government collects the tax, that money that can be spent however the government decides and the taxpayer has no recourse other than going through his legislator.

One of the things the government does with the money it collects is fund schools. However, the Supreme Court has also upheld time and time again (most recently in Rumsfeld v. Forum for Academic and Institutional Rights (FAIR) that once a school accepts government money, the government is free to attach conditions to that money. In the case of law schools, it was giving military recruiters access to the students. In the case of your elementary schools, it's mandating a certain amount of sex ed.

As JollyRoger said, a school can opt out of this by not accepting any government money at all, though obviously few choose to do this. But voucher schools DO accept government money, so vouchers alone aren't going to be the solution you seem to want.

Finally, you DO have representation. Your state legislator is the one who comes up with both the property tax laws and the laws mandating sex ed. I assume you get to vote for him.

 

[GenMarshall]

Certaianlly the Christian Right is authoritarian and nationalistic, and it's stance on abortion, gays, drugs and free speach is certainally anti-Liberal. The support for the Iraq war and glorification of the troops and the obsession with the flag can come across as quite militaristic to.[/I]

I am neather a Christian Right nor a Christian Left. I happly riside in the Christian Moderation (As many Catholics are). I am against abortions, Gay Marriages (I already explained in another thread of a compromise for this). However I am for free seach in moderation (So long as it does not involve flag burning and vanalism) and reside in the Moderate spectrum.

I and many Catholic Christians are against the Iraq war, but we still support the troops because we are concerned about their safety and pray that they come home in one piece and alive.

They would? Have you any proof of this?

It was a joke hence the wink smilie . Dang everyone is a critic when it comes to humor .

 

[Masquerouge]

If they want to live in a democracy, then embrace it, if they want to live in an Islamic society, then they should immigrate to one. There are many to choose from all over the world!

The reason why they immigrate to the west is because they receive some kind of benefit from it. If that is so, then they shouldn't bring withi them the same social system that they want to leave. Why is that illogical?

That system is Sharia. It is a system of subjugation and religious tyranny.

Has it ever occured to you that Muslim might migrate to a Western country precisely because they do not want to live in a theocracy where Sharia is the law?

 

[Sidhe]

It was a joke hence the wink smilie . Dang everyone is a critic when it comes to humor .

I apologise I missed the smilie, sorry mind was on other things.

 

[Katheryn]

A bold statement. And probably not true. Some parts of the world were a lot freer before the Christians came.
But of course, they were not really Christians, I guess.



Yet is has happened a lot, so it should not come as a big surprise that people think that, whether it's true or not.

And who were more free before Christians came? women in polygamous relationships? slaves? those who were sacrificed on the altar to gods demanding human blood? Temple prostitutes?

I guess the men in those polygamous marriages might think their 'freedom' was taken away, or the parents who gave their girls up to prostitution, or their boys, I'm just wondering who you are talking about here.

 

[Katheryn]

Has it ever occured to you that Muslim might migrate to a Western country precisely because they do not want to live in a theocracy where Sharia is the law?

Well, then those are welcomed with open arms.

Just like I said. Embrace democracy, embrace those values of the West. Come and be melted! Marry Hispanics, blacks, Philippinos!

However, CAIR Council American Islamic Relations says that the want Sharia in America. And it is denying Islam to deny Sharia.

 

[Sidhe]

Well, then those are welcomed with open arms.

Just like I said. Embrace democracy, embrace those values of the West.

However, CAIR Council American Islamic Relations says that the want Sharia in America.

Not that I disagree, I have no idea, but a link would be nice. Also who the hell are they and are they a minority group or a majority Muslim group in America. Throw us some info

And who were more free before Christians came? women in polygamous relationships? slaves? those who were sacrificed on the altar to gods demanding human blood? Temple prostitutes?

I guess the men in those polygamous marriages might think their 'freedom' was taken away, or the parents who gave their girls up to prostitution, or their boys, I'm just wondering who you are talking about here.

Again who are you referring to, what system was overthrown and when and some links, again not disagreeing but if your going to make statements such as these, it behooves you to provide some information other than your opinion, yes?

 

[.Shane.]

No it isn't. I pay $1,000 per month in property taxes which go directly to the schools. It is not government subsidies. I don't know if you live in the US, but here we fought a Revolutionary War over "no taxation, no representation!" That stands for vouchers. Then, they can do whatever they want in the schools.

Any taxpayer will find that the govt spends money on things they personally object to, myself included. Fortunately, we don't try and figure out how to spend based on individual piques.

 

[.Shane.]

And who were more free before Christians came? women in polygamous relationships? slaves? those who were sacrificed on the altar to gods demanding human blood? Temple prostitutes?

This is a riot.

Progress is not the domain of a specific religion. For every Christian who said, to pick one example, "let women vote" there were 3 other Christians who said "no way."

You totally misunderstand the nature of how change is brought up in societies or cultures.

 

[Masquerouge]

And who were more free before Christians came? women in polygamous relationships? slaves? those who were sacrificed on the altar to gods demanding human blood? Temple prostitutes?

I guess the men in those polygamous marriages might think their 'freedom' was taken away, or the parents who gave their girls up to prostitution, or their boys, I'm just wondering who you are talking about here.

Western Africans? American Indians?
The coming of Christians in new lands did not always result in a vast increase of freedom and happiness for all.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I am neather a Christian Right nor a Christian Left. I happly riside in the Christian Moderation (As many Catholics are). I am against abortions, Gay Marriages (I already explained in another thread of a compromise for this). However I am for free seach in moderation (So long as it does not involve flag burning and vanalism) and reside in the Moderate spectrum.

I and many Catholic Christians are against the Iraq war, but we still support the troops because we are concerned about their safety and pray that they come home in one piece and alive.

You have jumped into this thread presuming that Christian = you.

Free Speach in moderdation is abit of a strange concept It's eitehr free speach or it isn't. I accpet that preventing delebrete lies and incitement to murder is against the principle of free speach, but burning the flag is not.

 

[Swedishguy]

This is a riot.

Progress is not the domain of a specific religion. For every Christian who said, to pick one example, "let women vote" there were 3 other Christians who said "no way."

You totally misunderstand the nature of how change is brought up in societies or cultures.

Some people seem to believe so hard that they try to justificate everything with it. It happens under a constitution.

 

[Katheryn]

Not that I disagree, I have no idea, but a link would be nice. Also who the hell are they and are they a minority group or a majority Muslim group in America. Throw us some info



Again who are you referring to, what system was overthrown and when and some links, again not disagreeing but if your going to make statements such as these, it behooves you to provide some information other than your opinion, yes?

I don't know why, no one else does! But that happens to be what I was doing. Here is an article about a lawsuit of libel brought against Andrew Whitehead for claiming that CAIR said this. The lawsuit was dropped.

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/013533.php

 

[Katheryn]

This is a riot.

Progress is not the domain of a specific religion. For every Christian who said, to pick one example, "let women vote" there were 3 other Christians who said "no way."

You totally misunderstand the nature of how change is brought up in societies or cultures.

I don't know why I bother with this, you people are ridiculous.

We are talking about the people who ORGANIZED, who went out in the streets and protested. Those who went out and got petitions signed. Knocked on doors. It spread THROUGH THE CHURCHES!

Exactly like how the abortion movement progressed. THROUGH THE CHURCHES.

Women didn't just 'get the vote'.

 

[Katheryn]

Here is how "change" happened in the Mayans.

The priests got sick and tired of mass human sacrifice and cannibalism.

They forced them to stop doing it.

That is how the same change happened in the Northern European areas also. Same detestable practices, human sacrifice.

 

[Masquerouge]

I don't know why I bother with this, you people are ridiculous.

We are talking about the people who ORGANIZED, who went out in the streets and protested. Those who went out and got petitions signed. Knocked on doors. It spread THROUGH THE CHURCHES!

Women didn't just 'get the vote'.

Wait, are you saying women can vote because of Christians?
And the people who did not organize, who were they? Bad Christians?

 

[Masquerouge]

Here is how "change" happened in the Mayans.

The priests got sick and tired of mass human sacrifice and cannibalism.

They forced them to stop doing it.

That is how the same change happened in the Northern European areas also. Same detestable practices, human sacrifice.

Too bad the Mayans aren't there anymore to thank the Christians. I wonder what happened to them?