Christianity in America

[Farm Boy]

Hybridity is classically and centrally post-modern.

That's why the post-post-modern will have to involve a massive culling. It may be conducted entirely in haiku, for example. Arbitrary at its genesis, but rigorously mutually-self-enforced thenceforth. Almost certainly involving merciless self-abnegation of some such sort.

It may well emerge from the sustainability ethos, have that as its parameter. If I were a betting man, I'd lay a Benjamin there, I guess.

Laws change; people die; the land remains?

 

[aelf]

oh, so it's my post you said wat to. what are you confused about?

He's a Christian fundamentalist. He's confused about everything, but also sure about everything.

 

[Zardnaar]

I remember something about Jesus helping the poor and hungry in the Bible when I was a kid.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

I remember something about Jesus helping the poor and hungry in the Bible when I was a kid.

I think you might be referring to Jesus feeding the 5000 at one of his public sermons. Check out chapter 14 of the book of Mathew starting at verse 14 onwards.

 

[Joij21]

ironic as postmodernism was their era, it wasn't a 90s invention

To be fair most boomers probably only dabbled in it as a form of youth rebellion then transitioned back to a modernist approach as they gained independence so as to receive economic benefits by reaffirming the ruling zeitgeist.

Boomers are great political creatures, it's why they are more successful than later more idealistic generations. They care about themselves first and foremost.

postmodernism is about

Egoism repackaged for the twentieth century. I see a similarity between the idea of "spooks" and postmodernism likewise essentially calling modernism one great big spook.

You're a positive hedonist right? I think Max Stirner was one too. Perhaps most postmodernists as well?

Hybridity is classically and centrally post-modern.

That's why the post-post-modern will have to involve a massive culling. It may be conducted entirely in haiku, for example. Arbitrary at its genesis, but rigorously mutually-self-enforced thenceforth. Almost certainly involving merciless self-abnegation of some such sort.

It may well emerge from the sustainability ethos, have that as its parameter. If I were a betting man, I'd lay a Benjamin there, I guess.

Tartaria will invade down from the wicked north that is for sure. However that does not mean hybridization would be outright rejected, it exists in modernism too as it is pragmatic and useful.

Plus it's fairly modernistic to assume the next philosophy must always be an outright rejection of the previous. I see it more as a rejection of that within modernism which was used for control over a politically useful narrative, as well as a rejection of postmodernism focusing too much on the individual's pragmatisms.

Think more Oriental, less Occidental. Tartaria is a more Oriental society for sure.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think you might be referring to Jesus feeding the 5000 at one of his public sermons. Check out chapter 14 of the book of Mathew starting at verse 14 onwards.

Dint have a Bible can't quote verses. There was also something about paying tax (to Caesar), love thy neighbor and judge not lest be judged yourself. And false prophets.

Jesus was a socialist hippy (and Jewish).

 

[Angst]

Egoism repackaged for the twentieth century.

mmm idk. maybe. egoism is not a core tenet. you may explain the incentive for postmodernist views as egoistic, but egoism is not really what the common denominator is; similarly, neither is modernism rooted in an idea of egoism, even if you can definitely consider it selfish; and post-postmodernism also has little to do with egoism going by whatever the hell the wiki page was trying to say.

I see a similarity between the idea of "spooks" and postmodernism likewise essentially calling modernism one great big spook.

You're a positive hedonist right? I think Max Stirner was one too. Perhaps most postmodernists as well?

i'm a negative hedonist.

the idea of spooks is fascinating but it's not something i've researched much. so can't comment much on that. i'd note that spooks, from what i understand, is still something people believe in. i'm literally just outlining what people believe as per self-understanding and shared tenets. modernists generally believe in an incremental concept of history, and postmodernists rather believe in exchange of power. like, to grok modernism this way, one should look at its beginnings, as they were concurrent with the developments of industrial technology, which was the first time in history one could reasonably expect production to radically increase over like the next generation or whatever. that's tied into modernism's self-understanding and what pomos generally abandon as a framework of history for the principle of power exchange.

 

[Sommerswerd]

1960s to the 90s...hmmm...what else was going on? Most Boomers were moving through their 20s and 30s. The boomer bulge was the largest cohort in history. Perhaps the decline in crime in the 90s was related to them growing up and settling down.

And having abortions... according to the most controversial of the associations/claims in Freakonomics.

 

[Lexicus]

Two words: leaded gasoline

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: And let's get back to Christianity in America please.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

Dint have a Bible can't quote verses. There was also something about paying tax (to Caesar), love thy neighbor and judge not lest be judged yourself. And false prophets.

Jesus was a socialist hippy (and Jewish).

If you're interested you can type in those phrases at this free online bible website. (i.e. click on the bold faced "this")

They've got many versions/translations of the bible for you to check out.

But the short answer here for those items you mentioned:

1. Paying tax to Caesar - so the religious leaders were trying to trap Jesus by asking him if it was right to pay taxes (or tribute) to Caesar. Previously Jesus rebuked those religious leaders because they challenged his authority to preach at the temple. So they asked him if it was God's will to pay tribute to Caesar. Jesus told them give to Caesar what is Caesar's, but give to God what is God's.

2. Love they neighbor - There is a lot to say about this story example but I'll keep it short. Jesus wants us love our neighbor as well love ourselves. IOW treat others as you would have them treat you. There is a much deeper meaning to this but in the interest of keeping my answer short I'll stop here. Btw in the 'Bible Talk' thread Gori the Grey has been engaging several CFC'ers about this very subject.

3. Judge not lest ye be judged - What Jesus is trying to tell us is don't worry about judging people for whatever reason. Jesus will judge the living and the dead with all righteousness. Our job is to just spread the good word and not in judgement. We don't have to like or agree with everyone, but we shouldn't judge anyone for their actions. Let God take care of that.

4. False prophets - Jesus warned us that in the last days or the end times there will be many false prophets trying to deceive many from the truth.

 

[Zardnaar]

If you're interested you can type in those phrases at this free online bible website. (i.e. click on the bold faced "this")

They've got many versions/translations of the bible for you to check out.

But the short answer here for those items you mentioned:

1. Paying tax to Caesar - so the religious leaders were trying to trap Jesus by asking him if it was right to pay taxes (or tribute) to Caesar. Previously Jesus rebuked those religious leaders because they challenged his authority to preach at the temple. So they asked him if it was God's will to pay tribute to Caesar. Jesus told them give to Caesar what is Caesar's, but give to God what is God's.

2. Love they neighbor - There is a lot to say about this story example but I'll keep it short. Jesus wants us love our neighbor as well love ourselves. IOW treat others as you would have them treat you. There is a much deeper meaning to this but in the interest of keeping my answer short I'll stop here. Btw in the 'Bible Talk' thread Gori the Grey has been engaging several CFC'ers about this very subject.

3. Judge not lest ye be judged - What Jesus is trying to tell us is don't worry about judging people for whatever reason. Jesus will judge the living and the dead with all righteousness. Our job is to just spread the good word and not in judgement. We don't have to like or agree with everyone, but we shouldn't judge anyone for their actions. Let God take care of that.

4. False prophets - Jesus warned us that in the last days or the end times there will be many false prophets trying to deceive many from the truth.

What's the bit about the money lenders in the temple and modern day prosperity doctrine?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Dint have a Bible can't quote verses. There was also something about paying tax (to Caesar), love thy neighbor and judge not lest be judged yourself. And false prophets.

1. Paying tax to Caesar - so the religious leaders were trying to trap Jesus by asking him if it was right to pay taxes (or tribute) to Caesar. Previously Jesus rebuked those religious leaders because they challenged his authority to preach at the temple. So they asked him if it was God's will to pay tribute to Caesar. Jesus told them give to Caesar what is Caesar's, but give to God what is God's.

One important part you left out. Jesus turned the tables on their trap, specifically, by asking them to produce a coin called a "denarius" and then asking them to name the person whose bust/image appeared on the coin, forcing them to note that Caesar's face appeared on the coin. The undeniable implication, was that the coin obviously belonged to Ceasar (ie Rome) since the Roman ruler's face was literally on the money. So their question of whether they should pay the Roman tax was exposed as foolish, since they were literally using Rome's money... of course they had to give it back if Rome demanded it.

The Pharisees and Saducees (religious leaders) were on multiple occasions, trying to trap Jesus into saying something that they could use to accuse him of blasphemy, treason, rebellion, etc., so they could then use that as a pretense to have him imprisoned or executed, without just outright jailing or assasinating him without cause (which is, ultimately, what they ended up doing).

The "pay Ceasar's things to Caesar" is one example of Jesus outsmarting their traps with logic/common sense.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

What's the bit about the money lenders in the temple and modern day prosperity doctrine?

The money lenders in the temple were expelled by Jesus because they turned the temple, or God's house, into a market place. The people (the money lenders at least) were more interested in making a profit then in worshipping God.

Now modern day prosperity doctrine teaches that God will bless you here and now with riches and wealth. You don't have to wait until you die and go to heaven to experience God's riches now. This doctrine however goes completely against what is written in the bible itself. It is written in that we should seek the kingdom of heaven first where your treasures that are up there can never be stolen or wither away from rust. Jesus mentions quite a few times to long for the heavenly things and not the things of this earth.

@Sommerswerd

Well said. Thank you for adding that in.

 

[Core Imposter]

Compare the teachings of the prosperity gospel and the declaration of Paul:

“And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified” (1 Cor. 2:1-2)

The prosperity gospel is a repackaging of the power of positive thinking. Peale's work lays out a philosophy that is not of faith, either in its goals or methods. However, as to those individual Christians who are swept up in churches that posit questionable doctrines, the issue of their standing with God is entirely separate and personal.

 

[Sommerswerd]

2. Love they neighbor - There is a lot to say about this story example but I'll keep it short. Jesus wants us love our neighbor as well love ourselves. IOW treat others as you would have them treat you. There is a much deeper meaning to this but in the interest of keeping my answer short I'll stop here. Btw in the 'Bible Talk' thread Gori the Grey has been engaging several CFC'ers about this very subject.

Jesus admonition to "love thy neighbor as thyself" is right before his famous statement that you reference in regard to "prosperity doctrine"... the "camel through the eye of a needle" lesson

What's the bit about the money lenders in the temple and modern day prosperity doctrine?

The money lenders in the temple were expelled by Jesus because they turned the temple, or God's house, into a market place. The people (the money lenders at least) were more interested in making a profit then in worshipping God.

Now modern day prosperity doctrine teaches that God will bless you here and now with riches and wealth. You don't have to wait until you die and go to heaven to experience God's riches now. This doctrine however goes completely against what is written in the bible itself. It is written in that we should seek the kingdom of heaven first where your treasures that are up there can never be stolen or wither away from rust. Jesus mentions quite a few times to long for the heavenly things and not the things of this earth.

@Sommerswerd

Well said. Thank you for adding that in.

Jesus was asked what a person should do to get into heaven/gain God's favor, etc., and he responded by telling them essentially to obey God's laws and finished with "love thy neighbor".

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” - Matthew 19:16-19

Then Jesus gives the lesson that as you say, contradicts "prosperity gospel".

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. 23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:20-26

So Jesus famous "camel through the eye of a needle" statement seems to cut directly against the concept of prosperity gospel.

 

[Zardnaar]

Jesus admonition to "love thy neighbor as thyself" is right before his famous statement that you reference in regard to "prosperity doctrine"... the "camel through the eye of a needle" lesson


Jesus was asked what a person should do to get into heaven/gain God's favor, etc., and he responded by telling them essentially to obey God's laws and finished with "love thy neighbor".

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” - Matthew 19:16-19

Then Jesus gives the lesson that as you say, contradicts "prosperity gospel".

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. 23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:20-26

So Jesus famous "camel through the eye of a needle" statement seems to cut directly against the concept of prosperity gospel.

If you lije the old testament more convert t Judaism.

Islam also good if you like punishment more. Jesus teachings seem reasonably clear.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Dint have a Bible can't quote verses. There was also something about paying tax (to Caesar), love thy neighbor and judge not lest be judged yourself. And false prophets.

Jesus was a socialist hippy (and Jewish).

There are at least elebenty dozen editions of the bible online, completely free. And if you want the cat's take on it, the Lolcat Bible is also there (I think you need the Internet Archive for that one; it's harder to find than it used to be, and be warned that part of it's actually written in l33t, not lolspeak).

The money lenders in the temple were expelled by Jesus because they turned the temple, or God's house, into a market place.

I wonder what Jesus' take would be on modern-day church rummage sales and churches renting out their halls and kitchens to various groups. Our SCA branch usually rented a couple of church halls/year for our feasts.

 

[Core Imposter]

I wonder what Jesus' take would be on modern-day church rummage sales and churches renting out their halls and kitchens to various groups. Our SCA branch usually rented a couple of church halls/year for our feasts.

Our Church does not allow any commercial activity in our sanctuary. But this doesn't stop people from using their phones to scroll Amazon. I remember the time when someone would stay in the office during service to handle emergency calls. Or in the nursery, but now the babies are in the service.

 

[Core Imposter]

In regard to Christian Nationalism, John McArthur:

.We don’t win down here, we lose. You ready for that? Oh, you were a postmillennialist, you thought we were just going to go waltzing into the Kingdom if you took over the world? No, we lose here — get it? It killed Jesus. It killed all the apostles. We’re all going to be persecuted. If any man comes after Me, let him’ — what? — ‘deny himself.’ Garbage of prosperity Gospel. No, we don’t win down here. You ready for that? Just to clear the air, I love this clarity. We don’t win. We lose on this battlefield, but we win on the big one, the eternal one

John MacArthur vs. Christian nationalism

Such Christian nationalists disdain MacArthur s 20th-century brand of premillennial dispensationalism that assumes the church s role is chiefly saving souls before the end times

www.christianpost.com