Coronavirus 12: Don't Abandon Hope

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I was comparing it to other similar data on adults, such as this:

This is the delta variant, the Israeli study was about omicron (or a significant part of it was omicron). I would assume that immunity against omicron from the current vaccines wanes faster in adults as well. So it does not make sense to compare these studies and draw conclusions about kids compared to adults.

My expectation would be that the results with adults against omicron would be similar to the results with kids.
 
Do you have any specifics? Why would Lockdowns be net worse?
I'd reckon the increase in sedentary lifestyle and bad food choices alone will cause more prevantable deaths than covid (many pounds will have been gained and bad lifestyle habits taken on that may never dissappear).

Add in social isolation, domestic abuse, substance dependency, jobs and businesses lost and obviously the harm increases.

I can't imagine people having relatives die without even being able to see them, brutal.

So much needless suffering, hopefully next time they do this more intelligently.

Picking on elmac seems so strange to me.

I literally don't think I've ever seen the guy disrespect anyone even the most obtuse.
 
I'd reckon the increase in sedentary lifestyle and bad food choices alone will cause more prevantable deaths than covid (many pounds will have been gained and bad lifestyle habits taken on that may never dissappear). (...)

Hm - that seems a bit far fetched,

chances are that people eating bad when working from home were also eating bad when going out for work, sitting in an office chair is not that much better than sitting in another chair at home,

people actually working in construction, production etc. were never locked down they always went to work here -

what kind of lockdown do they practice in Florida ?
 
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ΑΦΑΙΚ, El Machinae is knowledgeable in this subject due to general (?) ties to his own work and education (certainly far far more than laymen) ; it's not at all strange that he can comment from "inside", so to speak. Of course this isn't a plea to authority, but we can all agree that no one can have insight without relevant studies (they may still be wrong, but that's rarely for laymen to judge, at least not easily or casually).
As for thinking that lockdowns or other mass restrictive measures can be shown to be a net positive - how would you go about doing that? You can't time-travel or visit a different cosmos in a multiverse where they weren't used. One can only try to compare different countries/regions at the same time, which may or may not be conclusive (eg Sweden had very little measures, and very few dead per million).

I'd like to hope that, in a future pandemic, restrictions to movement/liberties would be on a voluntary basis, with information about which groups are in a high risk (so they can make an informed decision on self-isolating). I fear, however, that this won't happen at all, much like it didn't happen for covid either.
 
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As I said, as the pandemic runs away, dissociating various causes gets harder and harder. Honestly, I'd thought we'd have spreading herd immunity by this point when it first came up. DALYs take a long time to manifest, and the analysis was even harder when we were mainly losing old people.

The hypothesis also has nothing to do with any counterfactual. If no one drives drunk, then all accidents will be with sober drivers. Just because sober drivers are causing more accidents than drunk drivers, it doesn't mean that it's a suggestion that we should allow drunk driving.

The data that springs to mind is the massive uptick in global hunger last year. This will be just a minor indicator of all of the other economic disruption in the truly poor.

Now, I think I'm the only person here who mentions it, but we spend nearly all our time discussing how we can force the vaccine on scared people rather than helping people who would love a vaccine to get a vaccine.
 
Now, I think I'm the only person here who mentions it, but we spend nearly all our time discussing how we can force the vaccine on scared people rather than helping people who would love a vaccine to get a vaccine.
Well, thread title a few threads ago, but the point is good.
 
Well, thread title a few threads ago, but the point is good.

I heartily apologize!

I can only re-express how fascinating I found it that none of my friends were interested in Canada's matching grant to targeted UNICEF donations
 
NM data.
 

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The suggestion that China could successfully hide the exponential growth of covid is on par with the theories of covid being entirely a government hoax.

If you don't test cases or officially document them, you don't get even semi-accurate numbers. For a nation that implemented the great firewall and successfully downplays concentration camps...simple inaction wrt testing data + reporting doesn't seem like a difficult step.

I suspect even Japan's low case rate is in large part due to case rates far exceeding testing. It's not that hard to do nothing.
 
My estimate is that they are similarly truthful as they are about their concentration camps.
There is lots of internal discussions on Chinese chat forums about lockdowns and what is going on all over China. When cities get locked down, it is not a secret. It just doesn't get reported much in the west. The fact that the government doesn't talk much about the situation, doesn't mean people are not aware of what is happening.
 
If you don't test cases or officially document them, you don't get even semi-accurate numbers. For a nation that implemented the great firewall and successfully downplays concentration camps...simple inaction wrt testing data + reporting doesn't seem like a difficult step.

My previous statement stands.
 
There is lots of internal discussions on Chinese chat forums about lockdowns and what is going on all over China. When cities get locked down, it is not a secret. It just doesn't get reported much in the west. The fact that the government doesn't talk much about the situation, doesn't mean people are not aware of what is happening.

Do you believe that they have consistently locked down enough to suppress Omicron? If you believe that, you might as well start buying vaccines made from snake vinegar.

My previous statement stands.

To illustrate why "statement stands" is nonsense, compare COVID (cases, rate, deaths) data in Uganda to US states. Then compare vaccination rates. One might blather about some conspiracy required to get these under-reported numbers. But you don't need one, obviously. You can simply not test the majority of actual cases you get and get the same outcome. And that doesn't even have to be intentional, a simple lack of resources vs population will suffice.

Though yeah, we do have some reason to doubt perpetual liars with recent history of lying about COVID specifically in addition to the implausible numbers being reported.
 
Regardless of what you think about current numbers, “implausible” doesn’t do justice to the numbers that would occur with uncontrolled exponential growth being possible to cover up.

That suggestion is firmly in conspiracy-theorist-land, and cannot be explained otherwise.

What do you think they need to do to "cover it up"? What actions are you implying in saying it?

Because for a disease with < 3% death rate (much less for omicron + vaccinated, even with relatively poor quality vaccines), you don't have to do much other than not bothering to track the data rigorously in the first place. That's literally it. Just don't spend money on that and talk about how great you're doing like usual.
 
Regardless of what you think about current numbers, “implausible” doesn’t do justice to the numbers that would occur with uncontrolled exponential growth being possible to cover up.

That suggestion is firmly in conspiracy-theorist-land, and cannot be explained otherwise.
It depends what you mean by uncontrolled. Even the top of the CI, 1.9 million, is well below the UK per capita rate. Who has it under control?
 
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