Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[Leoreth]

@Leoreth

I'm not too thrilled by the Indonesian UHV's, they should focus more on trade, and is having a grad total of 9 cities (to complete the mosque UHV) really worth it? I think that should be toned down to 2 Mosques, as most cities, I can't imagine will be very good in South East Asia.

Also the Thai UHV of having no Islam in South East Asia is a bit strange, and does not seem to reflect them very well at all. Also you state that you will have Angkor shift tiles, and change its name, but is it worth it, if there are wonders built in Angkor, to have them shifted to, to a new city? IMO Angkor should just become a town improvement and the Thai should just build their own new city.

You shouldn't take that file too seriously. It's called concept for a reason; many things are put their without much consideration.

 

[Gruekiller]

Where are these concept UHVs everyone is referring to?

 

[BenZL43]

Hi all..
(from mobile phone again, can't quote)

Majapahit was good in trade toom but probably not s excellence as Srivijaya... They are most identified with Gajah Mada's ambitious goal to unite every known cultured-alike world under Majapahit rule, like Alexander

Majapahit expands to present day Indonesia (including Papua as well), Phillipines, Southern Thailand too. There's still research wether they had contacted Aborigins of Australia or not, since there's seems Indonesian styles artifact found there..

Majapahit was founded by Conquest again Mongol (who want to conquer Java), and collapsed with the arrival of Islam.

Sri Vijaya, on the other hand, was really powerful on trades, which plays role in getting spices like Clove to Europe around their era..

Srivijaya vassalized Khmer during their first age, when Majapahit attacked and soon Khmer become the Khmer empire..

Btw, is it just me, that I can't find the no islam Thailand post the Turk reffered to?

Anyway, I got some nice picture of Srivijaya and Majapahit terittory, will post it when this damn independence day traffic jam over --"

 

[BenZL43]

Nice writing by Hafiz Noor Shams about Srivijaya...

Spoiler :

Of why Malacca but not Srivijaya?
May 15th, 2007 by Hafiz Noor Shams

A majority of Malays are content to look only as far as the Sultanate of Malacca in the 15th and the 16th century, apparently accepting the era as the golden age of ancient, classical or medieval Malay civilization. Thanks to the education I received through the Malaysian system, I had the same perception too and I do think even Malaysians as a society in one way or another accept Malacca was the greatest civilization in ancient, classical or medieval Malaysian history. My love for history has allowed me to delve far beyond Malaysian textbooks. While Malacca was a great empire, a greater civilization was Srivijaya, an empire that was almost forgotten. I truly believe that Srivijaya was that brilliant light that stayed bright from nearly a millennium. Malacca was a just spark, though brilliant as it may be.

The Malaysian education system fails to give Srivijaya the respect it deserves. So many Malaysian textbook pages concentrate on Malacca and successive minor Malay states but ignored that one large Malay empire that spanned from the Isthmus of Kra all the way down to Central Java and, at one point in time, even the banks of the Mekong. Admittedly, Srivijayan border was porous unlike modern states but its sphere of influence was far wider than that of Malacca or even of Malaysia.

Perhaps part of the reason why the Malays stress so much on Malacca is the fact that so little information is known about Malay history earlier than the 14th century. Relatively modern Malays have been so ingrained with the notion that their history starts with Malacca. That misconception pushes Srivijaya into that one book in a section of a library that nobody goes to.

Srivijaya, despite its status, was only discovered by historians in the early 20th century. The reason why it was so easy to overlook Srivijaya’s existence is the material used for Srivijayan architecture; many of Srivijayan structures were made out of wood. In harsh tropical climate, wood would not last for too long, definitely not for one thousand years. Malacca itself did not leave too much behind to be marveled at by tourists and so, one could not hope too much for Srivijaya. The rain and the sun conspired to erase a chapter of a history book, hushing Srivijaya from history to myth to total obscurity.

That does not mean Srivijaya failed to leave its mark in history. The Sailendra, under the auspice of the Srivijayan Emperor Samaratunga, constructed the Borobudur which still stands today in the middle of Java. But even that monument was only rediscovered in the 19th century by Stamford Raffles. As for the Sailendra, the East Javanese pushed them out of central Java, causing the Srivijayan ally to migrate to the west and built a new hope under the protection of Srivijaya. The royal court of Sailendra was finally eliminated by Srivijayan Emperor Culamanivarmadeva after the Sailendra betrayed the emperor. That act led to the loss to Srivijayan capital, Palembang, to the East Javanese in the early 11th century. Palembang was reconquered by Culamanivarmadeva but by that time, Srivijaya had gone over its hill. It was dusk time.

Notice the names? Yes. The Malays were Hindus then. And Buddhists, and animists, despite whatever the religious conservatives might assert, despite how our history is being rewritten by those that have no respect for truth.

The Sultanate of Malacca itself was founded by an heir to the Srivijayan throne. The struggle between the Malays and the Javanese continued well into the 14th century and sometimes by the late 1300s, Parameswara, a Malay Srivijaya prince, fled Sumatra when Majapahit finally crushed the last remnant of a Malay empire that started humbly by the Musi River.

In a way, Malacca was the successor of the glorious Srivijaya. If Malacca could be seen as a sultanate that later led to Malaya and Malaysia, then Srivijaya could be seen as such as well.

While I was in Bangkok, I visited some of the museums there. It is truly sad to find out that the Thais are more appreciative of the Malay empire than the Malays and Malaysians in Malaysia themselves. Perhaps, that could be explained by the presence of Srivijayan temples, biaras, in Thailand, reminding the Thais of an empire long ago. In Malaysia, almost nothing.

Almost nothing but the Bujang Valley which was under the control of Old Kedah, a state within the realm of Srivijaya. Is it not odd that Bujang Valley, itself being far richer in historical terms, has been outshone by relatively young ruins (if it could be called as such) of Malacca?

Something must explain this bias that sides with Malacca. Could it be religion?

Spoiler :

Srivijaya Territory (Sketch)



Srivijayan Battles



Indonesia right when Majapahit was about to spawn (c1100- early c1200)



Majapahit (Indonesian Version)



Majapahit c1300AD



Really nice animation about Khmer and their expansions

 

[Leoreth]

Where are these concept UHVs everyone is referring to?

Btw, is it just me, that I can't find the no islam Thailand post the Turk reffered to?

There's a file called Concept v1.8 that comes with DoC when you update your SVN. It's where I keep rough concepts / reminders for myself, such as these.

Anyway, I got some nice picture of Srivijaya and Majapahit terittory, will post it when this damn independence day traffic jam over --"

Thanks for the article and the map (unfortunately the second one doesn't seem to work). Do I understand it right that most of the names are those of local tribes/ethnicities? And only those marking a dot city names?

Because something for a city name map would be very useful

 

[BenZL43]

Oops..
I was about to add another picture but I forgot to click send until 1 hour later -_-
I'll create the city name, probably now or tomorrow
Which city name do you want, Srivijaya Majapahit or Republic of Indonesia?
Or probably I'll create all in any case

Some nice link
Also nice (but probably already a dead site )

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks for the great links and maps, very informative! For the city name maps, the older, the better (i.e. Srivijaya and Majapahit era names first), we can still roughly rename cities to nearby modern counterparts even if they're not exactly the same city.

Another question: there are two peaks on Sumatra and one on Java currently. Do you think it's justified to replace one for each island with hills? Space is sparse as it is, and there should be some production.

 

[BenZL43]

For the peak in Sumatra, my guess it is Mt. Toba, an inactive mountain that erupted like 80.000 years ago and trigger Ice Age, CMIIW
It's better with hill.. or hill with oasis?
There is a large lake, Danau Toba, which created from the eruption of that mountain.
German article about Danau Toba

The peak in Java, I identified as Mt. Krakatoa..
Already dead as well, erupted in 1883 and killed >40.000 peoples
Krakatoa
It is actually in reality should be 1 tile west, but it'll create that seems they are connected..
I think it'll be better to changed to grassland.. rather than hill.

I'd suggest a few map changes as well,

1st)

2 peak in Sulawesi should be moved to east, and the grassland moved to west (shift the tiles)
I can't identify both peak right now (in their current location), no idea yet.

2nd)

relocate all Papua 2 tiles east and add 2 vertical islands there, between Papua and Sulawesi, and fill it with Spices.
Both are Maluku and Seram islands, the only place in the world where cloves grew, main target of Srivijaya, Majapahit, Dutch VOC, Portuguese and Spanish.

Okay, I'll get the city name to you tomorrow. I'll create 2 different version, 1 is Sri Vijaya version, and another one is Majapahit version. Most of the important cities stays the same..

 

[Gruekiller]

There's a file called Concept v1.8 that comes with DoC when you update your SVN. It's where I keep rough concepts / reminders for myself, such as these.

Oh!

... How do I get the SVN?

 

[Leoreth]

For the peak in Sumatra, my guess it is Mt. Toba, an inactive mountain that erupted like 80.000 years ago and trigger Ice Age, CMIIW
It's better with hill.. or hill with oasis?
There is a large lake, Danau Toba, which created from the eruption of that mountain.
German article about Danau Toba

The peak in Java, I identified as Mt. Krakatoa..
Already dead as well, erupted in 1883 and killed >40.000 peoples
Krakatoa
It is actually in reality should be 1 tile west, but it'll create that seems they are connected..
I think it'll be better to changed to grassland.. rather than hill.

I'd suggest a few map changes as well,

1st)

2 peak in Sulawesi should be moved to east, and the grassland moved to west (shift the tiles)
I can't identify both peak right now (in their current location), no idea yet.

2nd)

relocate all Papua 2 tiles east and add 2 vertical islands there, between Papua and Sulawesi, and fill it with Spices.
Both are Maluku and Seram islands, the only place in the world where cloves grew, main target of Srivijaya, Majapahit, Dutch VOC, Portuguese and Spanish.

Okay, I'll get the city name to you tomorrow. I'll create 2 different version, 1 is Sri Vijaya version, and another one is Majapahit version. Most of the important cities stays the same..

Great, and thanks for the explanation. Could you edit the map with worldbuilder and upload a screenshot here? It's easier that way.

The Indonesian civ is implemented now. Settler maps and city name manager are copied from the Khmer right now, but most of the work is done. Screenshot:

Spoiler :

The thing that bothers me is the jungle. Either it has to be removed in certain locations or Indonesia needs a UP that allows them to build improvements on jungle tiles.

Oh!

... How do I get the SVN?

There's an explanation in the first post of this thread

 

[keli]

for UHV maybe: have at least one city on 15 different islands?

 

[Linkman226]

Wow you work fast. How long did that take you, in hours?

 

[great.taurus]

Great, and thanks for the explanation. Could you edit the map with worldbuilder and upload a screenshot here? It's easier that way.

The Indonesian civ is implemented now. Settler maps and city name manager are copied from the Khmer right now, but most of the work is done. Screenshot:

Spoiler :

The thing that bothers me is the jungle. Either it has to be removed in certain locations or Indonesia needs a UP that allows them to build improvements on jungle tiles.


There's an explanation in the first post of this thread

Holy crap that was fast. Good job!

 

[Leoreth]

@keli:
Don't know, 15 islands would get you rather far away from the original Indonesian archipelago ...

@Linkman:
I've got some time on my hands now, and it's getting easier with every time The time is difficult to measure because I do it along several other things (including working on a university paper ...), but I guess ... three hours? It was really easy this time because veBear's Indonesia module already had everything neatly in place.

 

[comrade francis]

Hi, for some reason my game crashes in 1425 (normal speed), it crashed when i was playing with portugal, and when it was loading a dutch start.

 

[Gruekiller]

I'm getting an error message when I try to make the SVN file in the Mods folder for DoC.

 

[IrishDragon]

Nice, looking forward to trying them out

 

[Leoreth]

Hi, for some reason my game crashes in 1425 (normal speed), it crashed when i was playing with portugal, and when it was loading a dutch start.

Yeah, I'm still trying to identify that one. Unfortunately it only appears randomly so it's difficult to track down.

I'm getting an error message when I try to make the SVN file in the Mods folder for DoC.

What does the error say?

 

[Linkman226]

Did you figure out the cause of the Italy crash?

 

[IrishDragon]

The thing that bothers me is the jungle. Either it has to be removed in certain locations or Indonesia needs a UP that allows them to build improvements on jungle tiles.

Maybe replace some jungle with forests? Would help them a little with production as well.