Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[Linkman226]

Leoreth, Indonesia isn't appearing. Is it in the SVN yet?

 

[The Turk]

Leoreth, Indonesia isn't appearing. Is it in the SVN yet?

Leoreth has yet to include it in the mod at all.

 

[Linkman226]

We just saw screenshots.

 

[J. pride]

Leoreth, I dont mean to overload u with work but now would be the right time to add the Mughals. I say this because before i thought ur work on Asia would be shorter. But since u are
taking ur time adding the Indonesians, Koreans and the Thais. I would argue that u should also add the Mughals.

I have the following idea:

Name: Ghorids/Delhi Sultanate/Mughals
Leaders:Muhammad of Ghor, Babur, Akbar
UU: Ghazi (+25% combat agaist cities)
UB: Mausoleums (generate +5 culture and +2 Commerce)
UP: The Power of Tolerance: Foreign Religions act as State Religion when it comes to happiness and other bonuses (Religous Building, etc)
UHV (4 options):- Have 5 cities in India with population of more than 7.
-Be the wealthiest and most populated civ in 1700 ad.
-Build the Taj Mahal and 2 Islamic Great Mosques by 1650
-Don't allow any european city's in India
Preferred Civic: ???
Start: 1100 AD
Starting Location: Lahore (capital changed to Delhi on capture)
Flip Zone:Northern Afghanistan and North Western Pakistan (Qandahar not included)
Name Change: On spawn Ghorids, Delhi Sultanate in 1300, Mughals in 1500, Pakistan or Afghanistan if civ resurrects after Nationalism.


Also Leoreth since u are adding Thailand, Indonesia and the Mughals. You should do the following conquerers events.

-Indonesia: Dutch Conquerers event on contact (forces spread out on all islands) which most likely results in conquest but a chance of vassalization.
-Thailand: A small French conquerers event which can either result in vassalization or conquest. There should be a high chance that the Thai AI sues for peace and vassalizes. Conquest should be a secondary thing.
-Mughals: When the British contact the Mughals; Calcutta is auto-founded/flipped as a British. Heres the good part: After this if the Mughals or the British declare war on the other a large British Army appears around Calcutta. This happens 2 times in case the Mughals survive and declare war again. This is a good way to represent the eventual British conquest of India.

 

[Linkman226]

So this occurred to me:

Sine there's a trading company, why not make it so that those civs with the company in their headquarters get special conqueror's events?

 

[Leoreth]

For Indonesia I'd like to see "no European colonies in Southeast Asia (and Australia?) by... X-date, perhaps 1950", to reflect their war of independence from the Dutch.

The problem is to get some Europeans to show up there first. I'll explain why later.

Leoreth, Indonesia isn't appearing. Is it in the SVN yet?

No, it wasn't. There's still something odd going on that I'd like to fix.

Leoreth, I dont mean to overload u with work but now would be the right time to add the Mughals. I say this because before i thought ur work on Asia would be shorter. But since u are
taking ur time adding the Indonesians, Koreans and the Thais. I would argue that u should also add the Mughals.

I have the following idea:

Name: Ghorids/Delhi Sultanate/Mughals
Leaders:Muhammad of Ghor, Babur, Akbar
UU: Ghazi (+25% combat agaist cities)
UB: Mausoleums (generate +5 culture and +2 Commerce)
UP: The Power of Tolerance: Foreign Religions act as State Religion when it comes to happiness and other bonuses (Religous Building, etc)
UHV (4 options):- Have 5 cities in India with population of more than 7.
-Be the wealthiest and most populated civ in 1700 ad.
-Build the Taj Mahal and 2 Islamic Great Mosques by 1650
-Don't allow any european city's in India
Preferred Civic: ???
Start: 1100 AD
Starting Location: Lahore (capital changed to Delhi on capture)
Flip Zone:Northern Afghanistan and North Western Pakistan (Qandahar not included)
Name Change: On spawn Ghorids, Delhi Sultanate in 1300, Mughals in 1500, Pakistan or Afghanistan if civ resurrects after Nationalism.

I've been thinking about this a lot. The Mughals are quite a problem because I have no idea if they're better handled as a respawn of India or an entire civ. The first steps I'll take is to make India's overall terrain better, though, and finish Korea and Indonesia.

Also Leoreth since u are adding Thailand, Indonesia and the Mughals. You should do the following conquerers events.

-Indonesia: Dutch Conquerers event on contact (forces spread out on all islands) which most likely results in conquest but a chance of vassalization.
-Thailand: A small French conquerers event which can either result in vassalization or conquest. There should be a high chance that the Thai AI sues for peace and vassalizes. Conquest should be a secondary thing.
-Mughals: When the British contact the Mughals; Calcutta is auto-founded/flipped as a British. Heres the good part: After this if the Mughals or the British declare war on the other a large British Army appears around Calcutta. This happens 2 times in case the Mughals survive and declare war again. This is a good way to represent the eventual British conquest of India.

I don't know if conqueror events are suitable here. I'd have to limit them to Europeans (or else Khmer would get conquerors on Indonesia the turn they spawn), and even then the only civ where it could work for is Indonesia, because it's the only one of them where European interference started roughly the time where it's going to happen (15th-16th century). Also, the fact that they're both reachable by land makes an even earlier contact much more likely. The European occupation of India and Indochina started much later, on the other hand ...

So this occurred to me:

Sine there's a trading company, why not make it so that those civs with the company in their headquarters get special conqueror's events?

... and that's exactly how I intend to make it happen. The basic idea is that the first two civs who build a Trading Company (the national wonder) gets conquerors and/or settlers in a fitting area (Netherlands -> Indonesia, England -> India etc).

 

[Cosmos1985]

Just a very quick suggestion - too little time for playing and posting atm - have you considered adding the specialists mod, that Luko also implemented in his modmod? I'm especially very happy about the +2 to artists it adds, now making them meaningfull to hire for other purposes than borderpopping and UHV culture goals. And it makes quite a lot of sense also, which other purpose should an artist really have in-game?

Also, a great artist is no longer a FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-moment anymore, at least not as much as it used to be, most of the times.

Only potential downside I can see is that the Borobudur maybe would be a bit too strong then, but the Buddhist civs have health issues anyway, so maybe that is not so big a problem.

Other new stuff looks great, especially the new corps! I was thinking that Trading Company maybe should include more resourses though, how about furs fx.? Whale maybe also, but Furs seems like a no-brainer to me. Also, it seems maybe a bit drastic to eliminate it at Assembly Line, couldn't it just be "over-written" by Luxury Industry, when that spreads to the city? I'm a bit sceptical at no more corp. exes also, but let's see how it works ingame and what feedback there will be for it. Oh and since big cities takes more maitenance it can be a netto deficit to have it in your cities, that is probably not intended.

But good job as always!

 

[Cosmos1985]

... and that's exactly how I intend to make it happen. The basic idea is that the first two civs who build a Trading Company (the national wonder) gets conquerors and/or settlers in a fitting area (Netherlands -> Indonesia, England -> India etc).

Sounds amazing!

 

[BenZL43]

Hi everybody!
Nice to see Indonesia implemented in DoC
Wow Leoreth you're so fast!
And that's like the nicest Independence Day gift I think I've ever seen haha..

The city name map on Excel files (I'm too lazy to upload pictures )
It's based on the unmodified tiles..
There's Srivijaya and Majapahit name, with Srivijayan name top and Majapahit at the Bottom..

I gave them city names up to Indochina, Philippines until western Papua

The Map, well it contains my quite-much modified Indonesia, little in Philippines and tip of Australia.. I use river to separate islands to islands... Might need a better method or if anybody got nicer idea feel free to tell me

 

[Cosmos1985]

.. how can I edit the Mongol conquerors event to work for a human player as well, by the way? Which file(s) should I look into?

 

[Leoreth]

Just a very quick suggestion - too little time for playing and posting atm - have you considered adding the specialists mod, that Luko also implemented in his modmod? I'm especially very happy about the +2 to artists it adds, now making them meaningfull to hire for other purposes than borderpopping and UHV culture goals. And it makes quite a lot of sense also, which other purpose should an artist really have in-game?

Also, a great artist is no longer a FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-moment anymore, at least not as much as it used to be, most of the times.

Yeah, that's a good idea actually. Artists are really useless at the moment. I'm not sure if +2 happiness is too powerful, but +1 should definitely be possible.

Other new stuff looks great, especially the new corps! I was thinking that Trading Company maybe should include more resourses though, how about furs fx.? Whale maybe also, but Furs seems like a no-brainer to me. Also, it seems maybe a bit drastic to eliminate it at Assembly Line, couldn't it just be "over-written" by Luxury Industry, when that spreads to the city? I'm a bit sceptical at no more corp. exes also, but let's see how it works ingame and what feedback there will be for it. Oh and since big cities takes more maitenance it can be a netto deficit to have it in your cities, that is probably not intended.

But good job as always!

I plan to eliminate corporation maintenance altogether. Now that you can't control its spread there's no reason to penalize you for it. The trading company corporation is meant to especially cover Caribbean/East Indian trade and enhance those islands, which were very profitable in history but are useless in RFC.

Hi everybody!
Nice to see Indonesia implemented in DoC
Wow Leoreth you're so fast!
And that's like the nicest Independence Day gift I think I've ever seen haha..

The city name map on Excel files (I'm too lazy to upload pictures )
It's based on the unmodified tiles..
There's Srivijaya and Majapahit name, with Srivijayan name top and Majapahit at the Bottom..

I gave them city names up to Indochina, Philippines until western Papua

The Map, well it contains my quite-much modified Indonesia, little in Philippines and tip of Australia.. I use river to separate islands to islands... Might need a better method or if anybody got nicer idea feel free to tell me

Thanks so far, the name maps are extremely helpful, and you even made the effort to identify the mountains (that's a good source to decide which I can delete).

Unfortunately I couldn't open your savegame because I'm already running a modified DLL (ironically because I've implemented Indonesia), and at the moment I can't revert to an earlier revision. It would save me a lot of trouble if you'd simply upload a screenshot. That said, I'm afraid it's unlikely that I will move tiles anyway, because that would mean I'd have to adapt all the overlay maps that cover the area ...

Some questions on the city name map: I'm thinking about placing Palembang on the tile south of the one you chose (where the unidentifiable mountain is now) to have more room for a city in Malaysia. That's not too far off is it?

Also I was thinking about fitting Malacca in there somewhere ... it's a little asynchronous but at least it's an important and recognizable city. I'd say on the tile where you placed Pahang?

.. how can I edit the Mongol conquerors event to work for a human player as well, by the way? Which file(s) should I look into?

onFirstContact() in RiseAndFall.py, scroll to the end. There's an "utils.getHumanID != iCiv" check somewhere, which you have to remove (make sure the indentation still fits afterwards).

 

[Cosmos1985]

Yeah, that's a good idea actually. Artists are really useless at the moment. I'm not sure if +2 happiness is too powerful, but +1 should definitely be possible.

I plan to eliminate corporation maintenance altogether. Now that you can't control its spread there's no reason to penalize you for it. The trading company corporation is meant to especially cover Caribbean/East Indian trade and enhance those islands, which were very profitable in history but are useless in RFC.

But the thing is that the artist specialist is one citizen "used" already, so if it's just 1 then it just makes itself happy, and doesn't have any further effect. If that makes sense. Let's say the city has 10 pops, 2 of them unhappy, meaning 8 working citizens. If you then hire an artist, the only benefit you would get would be the regular artist benefit, since the end result would still be 8 non-artist citizens. So isn't 2's fair enough?

I was actually thinking about just that as an idea too. I think that sounds really good, but you want to do that for just the 2 early corps, or all of them? Also, HQ's would need to be nerfed a bit then I guess, if you don't have to pay maintenance for the cities having the corps, wouldn't it be too powerfull otherwise?

Thanks for the reply with the Mongols, will try it out!

 

[BenZL43]

I've just identified the mountain south of Palembang, it is Mt. Dempo (3159 m)
Actually, I have no problem about moving it south..
Just that Palembang's harbor is usually identified facing opposite the Peninsula.. But it's all right
No its not far enough..

Hmm Malacca yeah it could be on Pahang tiles..
But it should come with Islam and Sri Vijaya should not built it..
I'm thinking about a mechanism that could change the name of city when Islam spread to a city? Like turning into Hyderabad, Azimabad etc.. So it could have Islamic name but had not been conquered by Arab before..

Too bad about the game files..
I'll get a screenshot then..
Probably tomorrow, is that okay? It's night already here hehe..
(It's around lunchtime no in Germany? lol)

The only island I moved is Papua, wholly 2 tiles east..
The rest is just adding some tiles and river to act like strait separating them from the island

 

[Leoreth]

I've just identified the mountain south of Palembang, it is Mt. Dempo (3159 m)
Actually, I have no problem about moving it south..
Just that Palembang's harbor is usually identified facing opposite the Peninsula.. But it's all right
No its not far enough..

Hmm Malacca yeah it could be on Pahang tiles..
But it should come with Islam and Sri Vijaya should not built it..
I'm thinking about a mechanism that could change the name of city when Islam spread to a city? Like turning into Hyderabad, Azimabad etc.. So it could have Islamic name but had not been conquered by Arab before..

Sure, I could make a trigger that does that, Russia already has something similar that renames their cities when they become communist. Still leaves the question which city should be renamed to Malacca?

And do you know more important cities in the Muslim era?

Also, do you think it would be okay to have them found Trowulan on Java (the Majapahit capital according to wiki, or is it only the modern name for its location?), on the tile that you've labeled Yogyakarta. The city could then be renamed to Jakarta later on, so we'd have the capital of two polities in the game.

Too bad about the game files..
I'll get a screenshot then..
Probably tomorrow, is that okay? It's night already here hehe..
(It's around lunchtime no in Germany? lol)

The only island I moved is Papua, wholly 2 tiles east..
The rest is just adding some tiles and river to act like strait separating them from the island

Yeah it was around lunch

Only Papua moved could work, but I know that at least Germany and Netherlands have stability and city name entries there so it's still some hassle.

 

[Leoreth]

But the thing is that the artist specialist is one citizen "used" already, so if it's just 1 then it just makes itself happy, and doesn't have any further effect. If that makes sense. Let's say the city has 10 pops, 2 of them unhappy, meaning 8 working citizens. If you then hire an artist, the only benefit you would get would be the regular artist benefit, since the end result would still be 8 non-artist citizens. So isn't 2's fair enough?

Oh, I thought you were referring to a settled great artist ... don't know but wouldn't the ability to summon extra happiness at will make theatres etc. too powerful? Or the Sphinx?

I was actually thinking about just that as an idea too. I think that sounds really good, but you want to do that for just the 2 early corps, or all of them? Also, HQ's would need to be nerfed a bit then I guess, if you don't have to pay maintenance for the cities having the corps, wouldn't it be too powerfull otherwise?

It's meant for all of them, but the earlier ones are also restricted to certain areas to make it "historical". The others are not, but still spread to the players that are best suited (it's more realistic that way because why should one civ be the only one with a steel industry?). The algorithm doesn't work as I want it to yet, but you can take a look at SoI to see it in full effect

Corporation headquarters are out currently (they don't need to by founded anymore anyway). Maybe I'll reenable them later, but yes they will be nerfed in that case.

 

[Leoreth]

Update: New revision including Indonesia is up.

Also:

Spoiler :

Strategy this time: don't found Shenyang to avoid pissing off the Mongols, and research Music asap. The Chinese founded Sanshan at my doorstep, which I conquered immediately. They made peace for 20 gold soon afterwards. The other cities were Mudanjiang/Mudan bira and Qiqihaer/Cicigar hoton. Hanseong was busy building a settler and a library in the beginning, so Sanshan took care of building Confucian missionaries. When 3/4 cities had Confucianism, I converted and traded Japan for China as a friend. All cities began building temples as soon as they got their religion, Hanseong started sending out Buddhist missionaries. Then it was basically the same strategy as China's: whip and chop like crazy. I chose Sanshan and Mudan bira for the cathedrals because the former had decent production and the latter enough forests to chop. It worked:

Spoiler :

I even made it before the Mongols appeared, so Shenyang wouldn't even have been a problem (but it's still better to keep four cities). That's how Goryeo looked then:

Spoiler :

Tech order was: Paper, Education, Gunpowder, Alphabet, Printing Press.

At some point in the following turns, Japan suddenly declared war on me and landed a small army next to Hanseong. Fortunately I had started building some triremes in Sanshan and Mudanjiang immediately after they finished their cathedrals, so I only needed some slavery to get a navy to guard my coast.

Spoiler :

The third goal needs you to sink 20 ships so the war came handy. It's actually inspired by the Korean efforts to stop a Japanese invasion under Admiral Yi Sun-sin and his turtle ships, although I didn't think that this would suffice and expected the Japanese not to build enough ships so you had to attack someone else with frigates. But in 1370, I had already destroyed 11 ships!

Spoiler :

I visited the world builder at that point to see how the AI performs. That's Indonesia and England in 1370 AD (I've made another attempt to make England build Edinburgh + another city between it and London, and it looks like it worked this time):

Spoiler :

Some turns later, Germany collapsed (Vikings were ravaging central Europe), which was good news because they usually beeline Printing Press and end up founding Protestantism.

Spoiler :

When I discovered Gunpowder, my UHV display greyed out and I was notified I had failed the second goal:

Spoiler :

I realized that this was obvious because Turkey spawns with Gunpowder and it's completely impossible to discover it by 1280 AD. I therefore decided that this part of the goal isn't feasible and that I'll remove Gunpowder from their tech goal. I didn't want to restart the game, though, so I reloaded the previous turn and took Gunpowder away from the Turks so I got the goal counted (so technically I didn't win that UHV ). But I wanted to see if it was possible to get to Printing Press despite the turns wasted on Gunpowder.

[to be continued]

 

[BenZL43]

Hello
Umm..
Trowulan is just a city ruins and a archaeological site now in the Republic of Indonesia.. that's why I labeled the place it used to be as Surabaya (Dutch : Soerabadja), 1 of 4 major cities of Java beside Jakarta, Bandung and Semarang.

I think Pahang renamed to Malacca would works well..

Most of important cities in the present Republic of Indonesia are from the Muslim era..
But the most important is :
-Banda Aceh (Sultanate of Aceh, was)
-Yogyakarta (Monarch of Ngayogyakarta Hadiningrat, still until now)

Cities in Kalimantan are mostly Buddhism
Cities in Sulawesi to the east are mostly Christian
Cities in Sumatera and Java mostly Islam, but there's still quite large Christian area present.

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks for the clarification. The actual name of the Majapahit capital on Java isn't known?

[Korean report continues]

In the meantime, Mongolia was eating on China until it collapsed (the turn where I researched Alphabet and could've finally traded for some techs, especially Engineering ). I tried to keep Genghis happy as well as I could (he ended up Taoist so he was of course still furious at me), and he didn't attack me. Japan built Triremes like crazy, which was good, but kept winning against the odds, which was not so good. Sanshan and Mudan bira produced nothing but Triremes and only later started building research to speed up Printing Press. Then finally:

Spoiler :

I immediately made peace with Japan (he would've done it earlier, but I needed more sinks). That didn't help much, because the next turn my 2/3 GA started and this happened:

Spoiler :

Tokugawa also declared on me, so it was back to trireme fighting again. Fortunately there were only two turns left for Printing Press, so Genghis had no time to defeat me:

Spoiler :

The whole affair resulted in an unflattering score, but that's to be expected for a small nation like Korea.

Spoiler :

Conclusion: I didn't expect that Korea already works so well. It's fun because it combines so many different aspects. Rather passive building for the first goal, then parallel teching and waging war for the other goals. Especially fighting all those Japanese triremes with help of their UP was heaps of fun, I hope every game turns out like this.

Oh, I forgot to mention, all that was in the 600 AD start. I've played 3000 BC once, there you're earlier to Music, but lack a ton of other techs, so in the end I expect it to be much more difficult. Maybe they need some extra techs on spawn there (like Metal Casting and Iron Working ...).

 

[AdrienIer]

And when can we expect a version release ? 'cos this looks great !

 

[Leoreth]

Well, all the current ideas for Indonesians and Thais suggest this still might take some time.