Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[civ_king]

Actually China is unbalanced right now, due to stronger Mongolia and an added Korea an already weak China has become even weaker. Also I think the Europeans already have enough incentive/ means to be powerful. They already have a conquerers event for Americas and now they are going to get one for Asia so I think it is a pretty good idea to make China a bit more powerful. If they become too powerful than let the Mongols take care of them.


I would take that as a yes to making Chang an the capital of China. Also what do u think of the capital change thing? (Louyang 3000bc, Chang an 600 ad, Nanjing after respawn, Beijing in Insdustrial and modern)

Since India has historically been one of the world's most populated and prosperous countries can it be buffed along with China?

 

[Opera]

Mind that if you buff China/India, it will make the UHV of Indonesia much harder in the event those civs don't collapse.

 

[J. pride]

Indonesia should have a different Uhv, these population Uhvs are much more suited tocivs like China and India.

 

[ilduce349]

Guys, from a geography point of view Xi'an isn't that far South of the yellow river. I think Luoyang should be renamed Xi'an and make that the starting spot for China.

 

[Ekolite]

Maybe Indonesia should have waves of instability co-inciding with the demise of the first two kingdoms it represents. Part of the challenge for the 1940's goal in particular should be holding the country together and perhaps regaining control over the archipellago after a collapse.

If you make the first population goal require some amount of territorial expansion outside of the core area (South East Asia mainly) in order to obtain the high population in time for a tight deadline. A game in which you have to bounce back from collapse to again meet a high population target would be very fun imo. It doesn't make sense for Indonesia to survive completely intact for the whole game anyway

 

[Leoreth]

Actually China is unbalanced right now, due to stronger Mongolia and an added Korea an already weak China has become even weaker. Also I think the Europeans already have enough incentive/ means to be powerful. They already have a conquerers event for Americas and now they are going to get one for Asia so I think it is a pretty good idea to make China a bit more powerful. If they become too powerful than let the Mongols take care of them.

The problem is not only China, but also Mongolia who take control of the terrain once they conquer it (obviously). If they don't collapse, they become ridiculously powerful. Their early overexpansion usually puts them to collapsing, but sometimes they manage to survive that and stay rather stable due to their strong China-backed economy.

I would take that as a yes to making Chang an the capital of China. Also what do u think of the capital change thing? (Louyang 3000bc, Chang an 600 ad, Nanjing after respawn, Beijing in Insdustrial and modern)

I'm not sure if different starting locations in the scenarios would actually work, nor if there's an easy way to get different capitals on respawn.

Since India has historically been one of the world's most populated and prosperous countries can it be buffed along with China?

Yes, I want to do that for a long time. I just haven't made up my mind yet what to change exactly.

Indonesia should have a different Uhv, these population Uhvs are much more suited tocivs like China and India.

Look at it from another perspective: there aren't many historical goals fitting for Indonesia that are actually doable from their situation.

Maybe Indonesia should have waves of instability co-inciding with the demise of the first two kingdoms it represents. Part of the challenge for the 1940's goal in particular should be holding the country together and perhaps regaining control over the archipellago after a collapse.

If you make the first population goal require some amount of territorial expansion outside of the core area (South East Asia mainly) in order to obtain the high population in time for a tight deadline. A game in which you have to bounce back from collapse to again meet a high population target would be very fun imo. It doesn't make sense for Indonesia to survive completely intact for the whole game anyway

Yeah, definitely. I don't know about overexpansion, the first goal should rather entice you to play close to history as an empire limited to Malaysia, Sumatra and Java. In future versions, Indonesia will get into trouble with European powers more often than not which should provide enough problems in keeping your empire together.

 

[J. pride]

The problem is not only China, but also Mongolia who take control of the terrain once they conquer it (obviously). If they don't collapse, they become ridiculously powerful. Their early overexpansion usually puts them to collapsing, but sometimes they manage to survive that and stay rather stable due to their strong China-backed economy.

Pehaps a stability hit, But in my opinion a better solution would be to have a Italian like respawn for China. I mean China is one of the most important regions of the world so it would make sense to have a respwan Ming respawn under certain conditions. Meaning that it doesnt have to be hard-coded to happen everytime only the times when x conditions are met.

I'm not sure if different starting locations in the scenarios would actually work, nor if there's an easy way to get different capitals on respawn.

You know what, Ur right about the first part. Maybe Xian should also be the capital in 3000 ad but i still think that the capital should be changed to Nanjing after independence from the Mongols and to Beijing during modern times. Wouldnt it be easier to this with a respawn?

Look at it from another perspective: there aren't many historical goals fitting for Indonesia that are actually doable from their situation.

Makes sense

Also i found something interesting that might help you: Kaifeng and Louyang are close enough to warrant the same tile. Here is a distance between some Chinese cities:
Louyang to Xian is 373 km
Louyang to Kaifeng is 190 km

So this means that u can change the name of Louyang to Kaifeng in the appropriate era. Other name changes to consider would be Huangzhou to Shanghai and Guangzhou to Hong Kong in the modern era.

 

[ilduce349]

However Xian to the turn in the yellow river is closer then Luoyang. Yet Xi'an is 2 tiles away...

 

[J. pride]

China to me presents a unique opportunity where instead of spreading cities out one is often more successful in packing them in a resource rich land. NO other country can afford to do this and this why China presents such a unique,refreshing and challanging gameplay. Below is what i think is a prefect map to represent this.



(NOTICE: Resources were taken out of Manchuria and the provinces of Yunnan and Guizhou (places that were historically not very fertile, productive or even profitable)

Now i realize that many of you will be saying that China will become overpowered but I recommenced the following changes to counter this.

1) More challanging UHVs like the ones China actually faced.
2) Even though they seem like a lot of resources notice that they are also extremely packed so that makes it even out. All one would need to do is make the Ai settle in a way similar to this so it doesnt take advantage of the land by only settling one or two cities. This can be done by just making settler values higher for these lands and lower for lands like Manchuria.
3) Making the Mongols stronger.
4) Also realize that all im doing is making China more realistic; before (Ai) China was a waste where most of the times cities never reached the population of more that 13 (early game) but now it will be a real superpower like it historically was.

 

[ilduce349]

post a world builder save?

 

[Algor Mortis]

First of all: J. pride, this may sound like an odd complement, but you are very good at coming up with the terrain of maps. I would not be able to do it near as well.

Secondly: I like the map like that almost entirely. The one thing I disagree with is the removal of resources from Manchuria. The main aim of Japanese imperialism in Manchuria was to exploit mineral resources and the population of the area. I'm not sure, but I believe the area was very undeveloped under Chinese control, although the resources were there. Also, game wise this would leave the Japanese little incentive to expand into Manchuria.

 

[ilduce349]

Maybe add coal and take away food?

 

[J. pride]

Here is the worldbuilder save. Coal has been added to Manchuria. Please note that this is not the official version and all the buildings, religions etc are not correctly placed. The only thing that is correct are the resources and the city placements (independents in 600 ad) that flip to China.

 

[ilduce349]

cool, I already have made changes to the map itself (adding fish to Edo, Uranium to Alberta, Oil in Alaska and Russia, added more flood plains to the Nile, more rice in China, and a few other changes)

I'll see if I can incorporate these into my map.

 

[Linkman226]

Leoreth, Kashgar starts with Islam, which is founded the next turn.

EDIT: And the Nicholas II art folder has a useless readme created by sabotlieh that is only relevant to his original download. You may or may not want to keep it.

 

[Linkman226]

cool, I already have made changes to the map itself (adding fish to Edo, Uranium to Alberta, Oil in Alaska and Russia, added more flood plains to the Nile, more rice in China, and a few other changes)

I'll see if I can incorporate these into my map.

Merge them via a text editor. Much easier than opening them up in-game.

 

[ilduce349]

Person who has never modded before (beyond the XML files) here...

 

[Linkman226]

Leoreth- Spain has an unhealthy attachment to the Middle East, the Vikings to Central Asia, etc., probably because of the current lack of continent-splitting. When do you plan to reintroduce the continent-splitting again (along more sensible, historical lines, as you mentioned to me earlier)?

Person who has never modded before (beyond the XML files) here...

Yup, that's where I was when I started Synthesis, although I also had the helpe of WinMerge, a tool I am about to introduce you to.

Do this (I'm assuming you have Windows):

1) Download WinMerge

2) Right click on J. Pride's World Builder save file and click 'Winmerge'.

3) Now you can see the difference between your maps in text format. Each plot has its x and y coordinates labelled, as well as cities, units, resources, etc. It should be relativel self explanatory.

4) Since you opened J. pride's file with the 'Winmerge' option, his file is on the right. Merge over using the buttons at the top.

You'll pick up quickly enough. Editing the WBS via text is a lot more powerful than doing it ingame.

 

[kaltruhe]

Hi, I've played your mod as a SVN version. It's truly brilliant and best RFC modmod I've ever seen.
Perhaps it's not a complete edition in terms of Korean civ, but I'd like to add some comments as a Korean. At the first glance, I noticed that the korean flag is very wierd and city name also (especially in manchuria area) and HV and unique power. I highly recommend the version of RFC Civilizations in Abundance as a Korean civ for your modmod. It looks more reasonable from Korean's viewpoint.

 

[ilduce349]

Small problem (haven't done it yet, but this might be an issue). His map for the 600ad start, mine is 3000bc...