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Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    20% of the world's population is definitely too tough for Indonesia. The highest I hit was around 12% in th 16th century, then I steadily declined due to European colonialism. Other factors like the Fishing Corporation are not yet accounted for, but at the moment it looks as if 10% is already an achievement.
     
  2. The Turk

    The Turk Deity

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    I would suggest moving the capital of China in 600 AD, but for the time being I would strongly recommend a simple name change of Beijing to Zhongdu (Middle Capital). This was the name under the Jin Dynasty:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhongdu#Liao_and_Jin_Dynasties
    As Beijing (Northern Capital) is a much more modern name, and therefore should only revert to that name when the Chinese respawn (after collapsing because of the Mongols) OR it should change in the industrial age, same time as Edo --> Tokyo. Also I'm still not seeing the Japanese build Edo that often :(

    Here is a timeline of China's capitals:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_capitals_of_China
    The most prominent IMO being:
    Chan'an/Xian
    Nanjing
    Kaifeng
    Beijing

    PS. I agree that the 20% world pop goal for Indonesia is very hard indeed...
     
  3. AOS9001

    AOS9001 Slightly over 9000.

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    Maybe you could just switch around the tech that founds Confucianism. Allow Rome to keep catapults, but have something they don't start with found a religion that's supposed to be halfway across the world.
     
  4. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    The Zhongdu rename makes sense. Most historical capitals are not really feasible for China. Chang'an is a bad spot and Kaifeng messes up the city placement. The only alternative I could think of would be Luoyang.

    But which tech would it be, then?
     
  5. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Deity

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    Perhaps Construction
     
  6. BenZL43

    BenZL43 awkward cat

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    Err..
    Leoreth,
    I downloaded via SVN, when suddenly my Internet connection go died..
    What should I do to continue it?

    I hate to start over since it's already at 150s Mb..
     
  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    No problem, there should be a folder already. Rename it to RFC Dawn of Civilization and then right-click and choose "update". The download then continues from where it stopped.

    On the third Indonesian goal, this is the best I could come up with:
    Spoiler :

    I was lucky that thr Khmer collapsed in the twenties so I could conquer Angkor to push myself over 10%. I controlled todays Malaysia, Indonesia and all of New Guinea, as well as one city in India. Maybe if I had been a little faster I could've conquered Pataliputra as well, stability certainly does allow it. I've currently set the goal to 10%, maybe a good player might even reach 12%.
     
  8. Algor Mortis

    Algor Mortis Chieftain

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    Hey all, I have a suggestion, or perhaps more of a beginning of a discussion to come up with a suggestion? Anyways. I've been studying the history of China for a bit now (Not too in depth, just starting out with the basics.) and I believe while we are on the east Asia overhaul, we should probably take a look towards the country that is the majority of it (If it isn't obvious by now, China). I imagine Leoreth may already have big plans, but I think it is time to begin discussing it either way. First of all, while we are talking about the capital, I think that Chang'an/Xi'an should be made the capital as mentioned previously, then switching to Beijing later. Although, I would support this only on the condition that the city be greatly improved. My suggetions are as follows:
    1. The lectures I am currently listening to talks about Chang'an as being the largest and greatest city in the world at (I think...) ~600 A.D. with a population of about 2 million.

    2.Food resources in my opinion need to be increased in China to up the overall population to its historically massive levels.

    3.The UHV of two Pagodas and two Confucian Academies, to me at least, is so far unattainable. I would suggest either lowering the requirement to one of each, or perhaps make a population related goal? If anyone should have one I imagine it should be China.

    4. This may not be a real problem, but more of my lack of skill in the game. :p China in my experience, severely lags behind in technology for the majority of the game. This happens in both 600 A.D. and 3000 B.C. starts, although it is less severe in 600. Shouldn't China be a leader in technology in the early game, and then slow down mid game?

    Thanks for reading!
     
  9. J. pride

    J. pride King

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    Why Cant we just make Chang'an a better spot. Historically i was the largest in the world on several occasions. Although 2 million would be a rather exaggerated the city itself is really nerfed right now. As far as I know the only cities that had a population of more than a million before the industrial era were Rome, Baghdad, Kaifeng, Xian and Beijing.

    BTW. I checked (Google Earth) and that mountain range east of Xian is largely inaccurate. At the very best I would call them hills. Also it wouldnt hurt to add a few food resources around Xian. Here is a good Xian:
    Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG
    (i would also more the coals to Beijing to the iron to Xian to represent their importance in their own respective eras; Iron=Middle Ages while Coal=Industrial and Modern)

    2. Agreed; Right now China is extremely nerfed population wise. Historically, it has always been the most populated region in the world.
    3. is possible; you just have to whip alot.

    Leoreth, have u considered changing one of the UHVs to be more population based:

    Perhaps:
    1) Control 35% of the world Population in 1820 ad (Qing Dynasty)
    or
    2) Control 30% of the owrld population in 850 ad (Tang Dynasty)
    or have a more general goal
    3) Have a population larger than the next 2 (or 3) contending civilization combined on x date.

    Also here is my proposed capital changes for China:

    -Louyang: on 3000 BC

    -Xian: on 600 AD but i would still let them start at Beijing and then flip the capital to Xian on flip (like the Arabs). This is largely so China always ends up founding Beijing and this will also help the Mongols.

    -Nanjing: When China declares independence from the Mongols.

    -Beijing: Changes to Beijing In Industrial and Modern Era
     
  10. Algor Mortis

    Algor Mortis Chieftain

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    Why not just have them start in Xian as the capital, and flip an independent Beijing? Just reverse the two cities current situations. Also, making Xian the capital would help the player if they are China, as I've been having an annoying thing happen every game when the Mongols spawn. Beijing will flip to them, which is my capital. If I do not let it go, then I usually lose it as all my military units there defect and I am exiled to Russia or some far away country. So I am almost forced to let it flip without a fight. It would be nice to have Xian as the capital which doesn't flip to the Mongols, so you can at least attempt to resist them.
     
  11. J. pride

    J. pride King

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    Because Nanjing and louyang were imPortant cities in Chinese history.
     
  12. Algor Mortis

    Algor Mortis Chieftain

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    Ah, sorry I wasn't clear at all. I meant in the 600 AD start have them found Xian as the Capital before flipping an independent Beijing. I agree with having Louyang as the first capital and then switching to Nanjing after independence from the Mongols entirely. I just think in the 600 A.D. start it would be simpler to found Xian as the capital.
     
  13. ilduce349

    ilduce349 (Financial, Philo)

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    Xian was much more inmportant then Louyang...

    Also am I the only one who doesn't want an indonesia?

    It kinda makes it so that no Europeans colonize the area...
     
  14. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

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    But... Currently no Europeans colonize the area anyway. At least it makes it less empty out there. Plus, if the Euros are given enough reasons to conquer Indonesia (meaning changing their war maps) we could get something good !
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Yeah, but the current Chang'an spot can't really live up to that (more on this later).

    I already have vague plans to turn some plains into grass and spread a little more rice around.

    It's definitely doable on Monarch, if you're good even with a considerable amount of time left. That goal requires skills of competitive Civ gaming: good city placement and micromanagement. I like the goal because it motivates you both to spread your empire out and maintain fast research for early enough Music. What I don't like about it is that it forces you to whip your population into oblivion.

    Definitely, I've already increased their research modifiers until the Renaissance and might ramp it up even further. That said, in my opinion it's easily possible to outtech anyone with China, as long as you don't squander all your population in building cathedrals.

    Now that's a Chang'an I could work with :goodjob:

    I think there are more interesting things that could be done with China than a population goal (I wouldn't mind losing the GA condition for something else).

    The four great inventions come to mind.

    Europeans didn't colonize the area, they subdued the states that were already present. They'll soon be given the tools to do exactly the same here.
     
  16. mayor

    mayor Heart & Mind

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    well, that's just the best news I've heard in some time :D
     
  17. Orka

    Orka Warlord

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    Btw, Leoreth, if you buff China's food, will it be balanced? After all, the only reason its population doesn't seem large enough is because Europe was enlarged/buffed (=higher relative population) for gameplay balance. I've played China a lot, and there already seems to be more than enough food.
     
  18. BenZL43

    BenZL43 awkward cat

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    Thank you :)
    Btw, any idea why the Tortoise can't connect to SVN?
    They say it's invalid error response etc..

    Hours before, it works..
    I can update (add) more files..

    EDIT :
    Never mind ;) Somehow it starts to update when I tried it again few minutes ago..

    Some thoughts..

    1) Any thought to make Indonesia into historical tiles for India?
    It was heavily Indianized way before 600AD...

    2) About great scientist :
    In your game, when did GS usually spawn?
    I still can't find any Sri Vijayan or Majapahit scientist..
    If they spawn a bit late, I could try research on Islamic era or Dutch era scientist..

    3) How about making Capital flip to Majapahit on 1300AD?

    4) I forgot to reply.. (Silly me :lol:)
    The ruin of Majapahit capital is already identified, named Trowulan..
    But it's abandoned and only temples left.. And Surabaya is the nearest major city there..

    5) I seen your new CNM..
    Since there's no Indonesian war line yet..
    I'd like to offer to help research on what that city should be when etc.. :)

    6) China should start at Xi'an..
    In my textbook, during Xia dynasty, the first (and legendary) dynasty in China,
    there was a large village there called Banpo that controls the goverments..
    There's also village named Hemudu, Dawenkou, Erlitou etc that flourish along the Yangtze.. IIRC (CMIIW)
     
  19. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    I really like the idea of the four great inventions being the basis of a UHV for China.
     
  20. J. pride

    J. pride King

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    Actually China is unbalanced right now, due to stronger Mongolia and an added Korea an already weak China has become even weaker. Also I think the Europeans already have enough incentive/ means to be powerful. They already have a conquerers event for Americas and now they are going to get one for Asia so I think it is a pretty good idea to make China a bit more powerful. If they become too powerful than let the Mongols take care of them.

    I would take that as a yes to making Chang an the capital of China. Also what do u think of the capital change thing? (Louyang 3000bc, Chang an 600 ad, Nanjing after respawn, Beijing in Insdustrial and modern)
     
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