Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth
- Thread starter Leoreth
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If we can have an aggressive minor,
It'll be best to have both Cholas and Liaos to be a minor civilization..
Because, IMO, Both was a quite regional power, but not as big as Rome nor Arab..
And represent them with independent cities is boring since usually, Indie cities are just decoration..
If aggressive minor is possible,
I'd like to propose to add the Huns, Magyar etc as well..
So minors will spawn at certain date and gone by a certain date..
Their job is to represent a currently under-represented region, and to destabilize the AI or Human players..
What do you think?
RFC DOC SUB FORUM !!! I'M ALL FOR IT
It'll be best to have both Cholas and Liaos to be a minor civilization..
Because, IMO, Both was a quite regional power, but not as big as Rome nor Arab..
And represent them with independent cities is boring since usually, Indie cities are just decoration..
If aggressive minor is possible,
I'd like to propose to add the Huns, Magyar etc as well..
So minors will spawn at certain date and gone by a certain date..
Their job is to represent a currently under-represented region, and to destabilize the AI or Human players..
What do you think?
RFC DOC SUB FORUM !!! I'M ALL FOR IT
Moshe Dayan
Da General
Am I the only one who isn't totally on board with the idea of adding a gazillion new civs into RFC? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it would make the game more interesting to a degree, but it seems to me like spamming new civs all over the map would just make the game incredibly unbalanced and more deterministic. After all, just because RFC is an Earth "simulator" doesn't mean it has to perfectly represent what happened IRL in every game. If that were the case, the game would be incredibly boring. As far as adding new civs go, they should be there to make the game more interesting (i.e. the addition of the Byzantines as playable) and not just for the sake of representing every single civ that ever existed ever.
Also, I feel that having too many scripted respawns kind of annoying as well. Isn't the respawn mechanic in RFC supposed to represent that already? If Greece respawns in the modern era, it represents the Hellenic Republic. If Rome does, it represents Italy. If India does, it represents Delhi, Mughals, the Republic of India and so on. Again, I feel that the game becomes to deterministic if a civ is scripted to respawn as another civ at a certain date. One of the things that I enjoyed in regular RFC was the possibility that a civ might respawn, and it gave me another incentive to keep my empire stable to keep myself from losing cities should that be the case. Now, it's just another thing I have to prepare for, and it makes the game more predictable, which I can't say I appreciate.
Of course I realize I can just play regular RFC or an earlier version of Dawn, or just disable the respawns, etc, but I though like I should put in my own two cents. After all, I love this modmod, and consider it a huge improvement over base RFC, which was already excellent to begin with. I am just worried that some of the things that made RFC so fun originally might be lost to a degree if too many civs and respawns are added in.
Also, I feel that having too many scripted respawns kind of annoying as well. Isn't the respawn mechanic in RFC supposed to represent that already? If Greece respawns in the modern era, it represents the Hellenic Republic. If Rome does, it represents Italy. If India does, it represents Delhi, Mughals, the Republic of India and so on. Again, I feel that the game becomes to deterministic if a civ is scripted to respawn as another civ at a certain date. One of the things that I enjoyed in regular RFC was the possibility that a civ might respawn, and it gave me another incentive to keep my empire stable to keep myself from losing cities should that be the case. Now, it's just another thing I have to prepare for, and it makes the game more predictable, which I can't say I appreciate.
Of course I realize I can just play regular RFC or an earlier version of Dawn, or just disable the respawns, etc, but I though like I should put in my own two cents. After all, I love this modmod, and consider it a huge improvement over base RFC, which was already excellent to begin with. I am just worried that some of the things that made RFC so fun originally might be lost to a degree if too many civs and respawns are added in.
Opera
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It isn't more deterministic than a regular spawn happening at a set date.
Okay, that would probably be easier, but still a lot of work.
It does, thanks for reminding me of that. I'll cover that today.
The version in the download database is 1.73; you have to download the whole thing there, though. Somewhere I've also uploaded a 1.72->1.73 patch in this thread as well.
Good points. I agree with many of them, that's why I'm cautious about adding even more civs in a roundabout fashion.
But I think they make sense if they are introduced into a region of the game that usually doesn't see much action (Indonesia and India for 600 AD) or can use a little more complexity (like China/Korea/Japan). Most of the scripted respawns are there because the Nationalism respawn mechanic can't cover that, because they have to happen much earlier. Also, there's always a gameplay reason: the Safavids are there to pose a challenge for the Ottomans in Persia, the Marathas are there to hinder colonialism in India.
I'm also trying to make these as unobtrusive as possible, therefore many of the current additional civs are conditional, which should reduce determinism. Persia and India will get a similar treatment later.
Opera
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Tried Indonesia. I like their feeling: isolated, trade oriented.
UHV #1 is tough, England was the most populous civilization in 1300. In 1500 I still wasn't; Mongolia was superpowerful and one of the most populous. BTW, they got to 2/3 UHVs all by themselves
UHV #2 wasn't easy but I nearly had it, missed only 1 luxury. Somehow Mongolia didn't want to trade Furs anymore.
I stopped afterward but I guess it takes a big empire to have 20% population.
UHV #1 is tough, England was the most populous civilization in 1300. In 1500 I still wasn't; Mongolia was superpowerful and one of the most populous. BTW, they got to 2/3 UHVs all by themselves
UHV #2 wasn't easy but I nearly had it, missed only 1 luxury. Somehow Mongolia didn't want to trade Furs anymore.
I stopped afterward but I guess it takes a big empire to have 20% population.
Cosmos1985
King
This is for the SVN-version, don't know if you want feedback on that here or pr. pm or not at all?
Playing as Indonesia, Spain and Germany both collapsed before 1400, don't know if that was just random, and not related to the recent changes. Nothing wrong with that happening once in a while of course.
As I play without plague I can't say anything about the 1st and 3rd UHV, but the second one seemed rather easy, you have quite easy access to a lot of ressourses that a lot of other civs crave. Both Islam and Hinduism spread to my cities, which was quite good for historical reasons, but a human player would probably consider going Theo - I don't know anything about Indonesian history, but how did the dynasties we are trying to represent with the new civ behave when it comes to religious tolerance etc.? Should they maybe get a UHV related to having multiple religions?
Most importantly (I guess): I get an instant CTD when trying to start construction of The Khajuraho. This it the text showing up in the logfile:
I love the new dutch UP! Saw it in the text-files, if it's implemented succesfully already that will be my next civ to try out. Although I believe that's another reason for not having the T.C corp. expire instantly at a tech, isn't it possible to just have it be "over-written" when one of the new corps is trying to spread to the city? Also, I'd like to once again suggest having Furs part of the T.C. resources; it's meant to represent both the east and western ones, right? Especially when playing as France, it makes a lot of sense, as that would be your reason for expanding historically, settling Quebec fx.
Should the Porcelain Tower maybe get Taoism as pre-req religion instead of confucianism? So that Japan, who also isolated itself quite a bit, have a better shot at getting it once in a while?
And one last thing, I couldn't find the lines you mentioned about the Mongol UHV (wanting to change that to human also, to see it for myself directly), are you sure it's located in RiseandFall.py as you wrote?
Playing as Indonesia, Spain and Germany both collapsed before 1400, don't know if that was just random, and not related to the recent changes. Nothing wrong with that happening once in a while of course.
As I play without plague I can't say anything about the 1st and 3rd UHV, but the second one seemed rather easy, you have quite easy access to a lot of ressourses that a lot of other civs crave. Both Islam and Hinduism spread to my cities, which was quite good for historical reasons, but a human player would probably consider going Theo - I don't know anything about Indonesian history, but how did the dynasties we are trying to represent with the new civ behave when it comes to religious tolerance etc.? Should they maybe get a UHV related to having multiple religions?
Most importantly (I guess): I get an instant CTD when trying to start construction of The Khajuraho. This it the text showing up in the logfile:
Spoiler :
I love the new dutch UP! Saw it in the text-files, if it's implemented succesfully already that will be my next civ to try out. Although I believe that's another reason for not having the T.C corp. expire instantly at a tech, isn't it possible to just have it be "over-written" when one of the new corps is trying to spread to the city? Also, I'd like to once again suggest having Furs part of the T.C. resources; it's meant to represent both the east and western ones, right? Especially when playing as France, it makes a lot of sense, as that would be your reason for expanding historically, settling Quebec fx.
Should the Porcelain Tower maybe get Taoism as pre-req religion instead of confucianism? So that Japan, who also isolated itself quite a bit, have a better shot at getting it once in a while?
And one last thing, I couldn't find the lines you mentioned about the Mongol UHV (wanting to change that to human also, to see it for myself directly), are you sure it's located in RiseandFall.py as you wrote?
That's the feeling I wanted to create.Tried Indonesia. I like their feeling: isolated, trade oriented.
UHV #1 is tough, England was the most populous civilization in 1300. In 1500 I still wasn't; Mongolia was superpowerful and one of the most populous. BTW, they got to 2/3 UHVs all by themselves
UHV #2 wasn't easy but I nearly had it, missed only 1 luxury. Somehow Mongolia didn't want to trade Furs anymore.
I stopped afterward but I guess it takes a big empire to have 20% population.
Did the new UP work for you? I didn't have the opportunity to try it out yet.I actually did the first UHV goal before it was even implemented by trying to figure out how much you can grow in the Middle Ages and which was the best way to represent a population-centered goal (overall population, comparion to other civs, certain city sizes ...), so I figured it was possible. I really didn't do anything else but focusing growth and trying to get as many health and happiness as possible.
Were you able to establish relations with Europe for the luxury goal?
And yeah, the 20% were only a rough guess (hard to figure out what's right without playing that far). It shouldn't require you to expand too much, although a little into the Philippines, Indochina or Australia would be okay.
Thanks for the feedback
People are mainly talking about the SVN versions here so that's okay.
Sure.
I don't know about religious tolerance issues, but afaik the usual approach in the South East Asian region is not to view Hinduism and Buddhism as different religions, but rather to treat them as equals and combine their aspects. Srivijaya was mainly Buddhist, Majapahit Hindu, but that was mainly because it was the dominant religion in their respective territories. Islam changed things a bit iirc, and started to actively replace the other religions.
I've opted against a religious goal because there are already tons of them, and the previous newcomer Korea has one as well.
That's good to know, I'll try to reproduce and fix it.
Yeah, the Dutch UP is already implemented. Don't know if it's powerful enough though.
The Trading Corporation expires around 1800 because that's roughly where the "islands produce monocultures for export" model the Trading Company means to represent stopped being feasible.
Did you get the impression Japan gets Taoism more often than Confucianism? For me it's often the other way aroung.
Yes. Look for line 3095.And one last thing, I couldn't find the lines you mentioned about the Mongol UHV (wanting to change that to human also, to see it for myself directly), are you sure it's located in RiseandFall.py as you wrote?
Opera
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Not much contact with Europe no. I met the Spanish and the Germans only, none willing to trade much. I'm not sure the UP worked, hard to tell. I know Arabia, Korea, Spain and Germany didn't want to OB. I OB'd with Khmer, Mongols, Japan and China though.
Note I was playing from 600 AD, maybe less civs with which to trade though.
Note I was playing from 600 AD, maybe less civs with which to trade though.
Ekolite
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Interesting ideas about a conditional spawn for European powers. I disagree with the whole Asian conqueror's side of things, but I would like to see France, Spain, and England spawn as a result of instability of Rome (or Carthage, if they are in control of Spain). This would give the game a much more natural feel instead of having a pre-determined spawn date which can be dreaded or prepared for. It would also be fun trying to desperately fight against the stability hits to avoid the European spawns.
When the civs did spawn, they would take the largest city in the spawn area as their new capital, and would flip any other cities of the same civ in that area. If there are no cities present in the area, or there are but only barbarian and/or celtic ones and it is passed a certain date, it would begin a waiting period of perhaps twenty turns (in which the area could be colonised again) and if the area remains empty the civ would spawn in their standard location.
I think this would add a more organic feel to the European spawns, without having a huge impact on gameplay unless the Romans can somehow retain a freakishly high stability and prevent their spawing in the long term. The civs could spawn either before or after their current spawn times, and spawn with the same techs as the civ they are spawning from (usually Rome, sometimes Carthage for Spain)
When the civs did spawn, they would take the largest city in the spawn area as their new capital, and would flip any other cities of the same civ in that area. If there are no cities present in the area, or there are but only barbarian and/or celtic ones and it is passed a certain date, it would begin a waiting period of perhaps twenty turns (in which the area could be colonised again) and if the area remains empty the civ would spawn in their standard location.
I think this would add a more organic feel to the European spawns, without having a huge impact on gameplay unless the Romans can somehow retain a freakishly high stability and prevent their spawing in the long term. The civs could spawn either before or after their current spawn times, and spawn with the same techs as the civ they are spawning from (usually Rome, sometimes Carthage for Spain)
Well...
Hinduism and Buddhism are friendly toward each others here..
And Islam weren't there yet when Srivijaya rise to the top
But Islam do influence great instability to Majapahit due to they forbid worshiping statues etc..
@Leoreth
When will you release a patch for this one?
It sounds amazing and I can't wait to try..
Just if tigris.org didn't schedule for forever maintenance..
That's right, and not really all that game-disrupting because you can choose the usual cause of action by playing the 600 AD scenario, which you'll likely do anyways when playing a European civ.
It still would be a hell of a lot to code, though. You'd basically have to make starting units, techs etc. dynamic for these civilizations, which would almost be some kind of RAND.
I'll reupload a new packaged version when I've finished all my Asia-related plans, this can still take some time.@Leoreth
When will you release a patch for this one?
It sounds amazing and I can't wait to try..
Just if tigris.org didn't schedule for forever maintenance..
Do you have problems with downloading Tortoise? I have no problems in using tigris.org.
hoplitejoe
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Are the Mongol conqueror events AI only? I thought they may be as I didn't trigger any playing as the Mongols.
Also you may want to remove a few decimal places from what percentage of the world they have captured as currently there are about 5 on the victory screen.
Also you may want to remove a few decimal places from what percentage of the world they have captured as currently there are about 5 on the victory screen.
Well..
the problem is tigris.org always appear at "scheduled maintenance" every time I opened it..
Btw,
the Great Prophet list. Cutted down to 5
Batara Guru Dwipayana (Bring Hindu to Indonesia)
Buddha Pahyien (Bring Buddhism to Indonesia)
Sakyakirti (Buddhist monk mentioned in It-Tsing's travel log)
Sunan Giri (Focal point of Wali Songo)
Sunan Gunung Jati (Found the Banten Sultanate)
P.S : Still researching for the other great people list
Yeah, the conqueror event is only for the AI (I thought it would make their UHV too easy otherwise).
Saw the decimal places thing as well, will fígure out how to cut it properly.
That's odd. Maybe these direct links work:
Download TortoiseSVN 32bit
Download TortoiseSVN 64bit
That sounds good. As soon as you have some scientists for me I'll add them. Thanks!Btw,
the Great Prophet list. Cutted down to 5
Batara Guru Dwipayana (Bring Hindu to Indonesia)
Buddha Pahyien (Bring Buddhism to Indonesia)
Sakyakirti (Buddhist monk mentioned in It-Tsing's travel log)
Sunan Giri (Focal point of Wali Songo)
Sunan Gunung Jati (Found the Banten Sultanate)
P.S : Still researching for the other great people list
I've just played Indonesia until 2/3, by the way. The second goal had me nearly going crazy, which is usually a good sign. I had hoped to establish a little trade with Europe for wine and fur, but it's impossible to reach Optics on time (currently thinking about if I should open op capes at Compass).
The UP does work as far as I can tell. It lets the AI react to OB and resource deals as if it was one attitude level higher than it actually is, and I usually could trade resources with civs even if they're annoyed (or even furious in Saladin's case). The problem isn't to get the resources, but rather to find someone who actually has something worthwhile. I usually got incense from Arabia and cotton from Mongolia, silk from Japan as well but later I settled the Philippines so that didn't matter. Then Arabia collapsed and all my plans were in tatters
In the end I whipped together a settler and some workers and founded a city in India to get ivory.
Looking out to see what's in store for me the next 400 years. Building a good economy should allow me to settle in India and Australia a little.
wow man..
I just experienced a really high speed internet..
just downloaded the TortoiseSVN (The new link works hehe)
perhaps the link in your first page is somehow expired?
Anyway,
will be posting my first review on this revision soon
I just experienced a really high speed internet..
just downloaded the TortoiseSVN (The new link works hehe)
perhaps the link in your first page is somehow expired?
Anyway,
will be posting my first review on this revision soon
ilduce349
(Financial, Philo)
China is to big, I would like at least 1 other power between China and Siam.
Yeah, that's right. I'd really hate to rob Rome of the opportunity to build catapults ...
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