Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[The Turk]

Well of course the map is going to distort things, but Nanjing was an important naval city, this is where Zheng He set off from on his many ocean faring voyages. In fact it would be a good idea to have Nanjing in the 600 AD start, but then once China hits the industrial age it should be renamed Shanghai, which eclipsed the importance of Nanjing during that time period, as a major hub for trade with the west. Therefore Nanjing (and later Shanghai), should either go:

1. One tile West; therefore moving Hangzhou south one tile
OR
2. Place the city above the wheat, on the current forest (one tile east of the pigs)

As for Kaifeng, after look at the map again, I'd rather keep it in the place you suggested, due to the fact that one tile North and it would interfere with Zhongdu/Dadu/Beijing.

@Leoreth
China needs to respawn sometime int eh 17th century, or else the Khmer control all of Southern China and the Mongols (who collapse soon after) control the Northern half. Perhaps having the Chinese respawn when the Mongols have low stability would be a good idea, rather than waiting all the way until Nationalism.

 

[kaltruhe]

Thanks! It was hard for me to research actual Korean names in the area (not being able to transliterate Hangul), so I went with Manchurian ones outside of the Korean peninsula. If you say the names in CiA are good, I'll have a look at them.

The flag is the imperial seal of the Korean Empire. I've preferred it because it suits the two-color scheme of Civ better than the Taegeukgi.

Thanks for replying I think I could help your modmoding in terms of Korean civ. If you are in trouble with translating or anything about Korea, please send me a message. then I'll honorably help you!

p.s.
I didn't know that korean flag is the imperial seal of the Korean empire thanks again for fruitful teaching

p.s. II
I think that Korean's third UHV ( sink enemy 20 ships) overlap with Viking's UHV. Instead, I'd like to recommend that below screenshot from another modmod, RFC Civilizations in Abundance by Jarkov. In my opinion, Unique power of that modmod (Power of Craftmanship) seems very suitable for Koreans.

 

[The Turk]

What about Korea's famous dragon boats? Don't you think they should be represented in some way? Also whats the connection between Korea and craftmanship? It does sound like a nice UP, but I don't see the relation with Korea. Also Jarkov's 3rd UHV does look good, although I would change it to earlier, if anything.

 

[J. pride]

1. One tile West; therefore moving Hangzhou south one tile
OR
2. Place the city above the wheat, on the current forest (one tile east of the pigs)

It would be more appropriate to Hanghzou into Shanghai and as I said before moving Nanjing will require me to redo alot of stuff (resource placement). While i recognize that you consider Nanjing to be an important coastal city; it is infact not on the coast but on a river; that is why zheng he was able to use the large river to navigate his armada. Anyways there were alot of cities on the Nile, Ganges, Yellow and the Indus river which were rather inland but were still considered naval cities so i dont know why Nanjing should be a special case especially since China has 2 large coastal cities already. Ur suggestion are for the very slightest accuracies with no gameplay effect or benifits.

 

[kaltruhe]

What about Korea's famous dragon boats? Don't you think they should be represented in some way? Also whats the connection between Korea and craftmanship? It does sound like a nice UP, but I don't see the relation with Korea. Also Jarkov's 3rd UHV does look good, although I would change it to earlier, if anything.

Actually, Korea had been famous for pottery craft from Goryeo dynasty to Chosun dynasty ( please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_pottery )

Japanese invasion of Korea (1592 ~ 1598, the turtle ship aka kobukson was invented at that time and defeat Japanese navy) is also called by 'pottery war' by Japanese historians because Japan achieved technological transfer from Korea, such as new methods of pottery/silk making/iron forging. (From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/임진왜란#Losses_and_gains).

Moreover, there are some plantations in Korean peninsula in the game map. So, how about utillizing these plantations by giving these unique power to Korean?

 

[Leoreth]

@Leoreth
China needs to respawn sometime int eh 17th century, or else the Khmer control all of Southern China and the Mongols (who collapse soon after) control the Northern half. Perhaps having the Chinese respawn when the Mongols have low stability would be a good idea, rather than waiting all the way until Nationalism.

I'm currently working on a way to replace the Nationalism requirement and assigning every civ specific respawn intervals (this will also limit nonsensical civs to respawn later), so that Nationalism only increases the respawn likeliness.

Thanks for replying I think I could help your modmoding in terms of Korean civ. If you are in trouble with translating or anything about Korea, please send me a message. then I'll honorably help you!

p.s.
I didn't know that korean flag is the imperial seal of the Korean empire thanks again for fruitful teaching

p.s. II
I think that Korean's third UHV ( sink enemy 20 ships) overlap with Viking's UHV. Instead, I'd like to recommend that below screenshot from another modmod, RFC Civilizations in Abundance by Jarkov. In my opinion, Unique power of that modmod (Power of Craftmanship) seems very suitable for Koreans.

Is there any historical basis behind that UP? It always looked as a way to get them the production they're lacking.

The ship sinking UHV goal currently overlaps with the Vikings, but they'll get another one soon. I don't think never to lose a city to China or Japan is a particularly good goal, by the way.

On a another note, I made respawned Persia look more Persia-like:

Spoiler :

 

[Leoreth]

What about Korea's famous dragon boats? Don't you think they should be represented in some way? Also whats the connection between Korea and craftmanship? It does sound like a nice UP, but I don't see the relation with Korea. Also Jarkov's 3rd UHV does look good, although I would change it to earlier, if anything.

Dragon boats? You mean turtle ships = kobuksons = their current UP?

 

[J. pride]

Leoreth, I tested the map in 3000 ad and here are the results:

Korea Start:

Arabia Start:


Now I must admit that China feels a bit overpowered in 3000bc as compared to 600 ad but I must also point out that it is also in large part due to an inadequete Rome and Persia and the survival of Egypt and Greece. One can also not forget the lack of Byzantium in most games:

Look at Persia pack a ton of cities in that little land, also note that it did not really expand into Mesopotamia and Anatolia. Also no Byzantium and poor Rome made stuff worse. I have some solutions that i will post once you move onto the Middle East and Europe.

Now for China's Problems:
- While in 600 ad I have packed one more city in China so that they cannot abuse their terrain but in 3000 bc it seems like they settler cities a bit further away. I would reccomend you change the settler map so that they settle atleast 4 cities around the Yellow and the Yangtze River (preferrably most of these; Hangzhou, Nanjing, Louyang, Kaifeng, Xian).

-I have already centered the Resources around important cities but i think you should also increase the settler value for those cities (Xian, Nanjing, Kaifeng/Louyang, Shanghai/Hangzhou, Guangzhou, Chengdu)

-Chinese settler value for Tibet and Manchuria should be lowered and barbs should be present in those regions.

-Change the starting location to Xian please; now that its a more adequete city; i must admit that its still not as good as Beijing but that can be a good thing in order to slow down Chinese expansion a bit.

On a another note, I made respawned Persia look more Persia-like:

Do u plan on merging certain things from Synthesis notably Orthodoxy, Shiite Islam and his Persia respawn (uhv, uu etc). He did an excellent job.

I'm not too thrilled by a scripted Ming respawn, it comes too early and likely ruins the Mongols before they even get going.

I realize that you are cautious of adding the Ming but i think they necessary. But that said the dates do not have to be exact; you can delay the spawn to allow for better gameplay and another idea would be to push the Mongol spawn back a little bit. That said i think you should also focus on making the Mongol Conquest faster. Right now their Chinese conquest is extremely slow. My suggestion is to give the Mongols 2 extra Keshiks and spawning them after the Beijing flip inside Chinese territory or in Beijing

Also can you spawn a Barbarian Shenyang in Manchuria. The city should be well protected and have high culture to slow down Chinese and Korean conquest of the region. Every few turns 2 horsearchers should spawn in the city.Also it would help if the city flips to Ai Mongolia.

 

[The Turk]

Dragon boats? You mean turtle ships = kobuksons = their current UP?

Whoops, yes I meant Turtle Ships, and yes I realize that, that is there UP, I was just asking kaltruhe, how if we removed the current Korean UP, how the turtle ships would be represented.

Also what is your opinion on the Shanghai/Nanjing issue. I still strongly believe that it should be on the coast. So what if China has other cities on the coast already, historically all of China's, biggest and most important cities have been on the coast, so hiding that fact, does nothing for them. Also London is not on the "coast" but on a river as well, but as it turns out they are on the coast, so why not put Nanjing on the coast but also along a river as well, that makes the most sense. I would be fine with Hangzhou turning into Shanghai, BUT... Hangzhou is still an important city, while Nanjing is no longer as important of a city. Also Hangzhou is too far south, I believe.

And I agree with J.Pride Manchuria should have perhaps an independent city, that spawn horse archers, to harass the Koreans and Chinese, by destroying improvements and the such.

Also Leoreth, I just realized that Kashgar starts with Islam, but Islam is in fact founded the next turn in Makka.

 

[J. pride]

Also what is your opinion on the Shanghai/Nanjing issue. I still strongly believe that it should be on the coast. So what if China has other cities on the coast already, historically all of China's, biggest and most important cities have been on the coast, so hiding that fact, does nothing for them. Also London is not on the "coast" but on a river as well, but as it turns out they are on the coast, so why not put Nanjing on the coast but also along a river as well, that makes the most sense. I would be fine with Hangzhou turning into Shanghai, BUT... Hangzhou is still an important city, while Nanjing is no longer as important of a city. Also Hangzhou is too far south, I believe.

It is patently false to say that historically all of China's major cities have been on the coast; try explaining Beijing, Chengdu, Xian, Louyang or Kaifeng. What is true is that alot of Chinese historical centers were near the coast. Wow, your really going to argue with London which is a mere 20 miles inland. Nanjing is 200 miles inland like Berlin and Paris. Who says that Nanjing is not a major city; it is the capital Jiangsu province which has the fifth largest population and second largest gdp in all of China. The citys population is comparable to Hangzhous (8 million for both). And Hangzhou is closer to Shanghai than Nanjing so it makes no sense to turn Nanjing into Shanghai especially since Nanjing was the capital of China as late as 1938.

Taking a look at the map explain my point:

 

[Leoreth]

Look at Persia pack a ton of cities in that little land, also note that it did not really expand into Mesopotamia and Anatolia. Also no Byzantium and poor Rome made stuff worse. I have some solutions that i will post once you move onto the Middle East and Europe.

I noticed Persia's strange city placement as well.

Do u plan on merging certain things from Synthesis notably Orthodoxy, Shiite Islam and his Persia respawn (uhv, uu etc). He did an excellent job.

I am of the same opinion.

However, I don't want to get into adding more religions before the next release so I guess any extra attention on Persia should be delayed as well.

I realize that you are cautious of adding the Ming but i think they necessary. But that said the dates do not have to be exact; you can delay the spawn to allow for better gameplay and another idea would be to push the Mongol spawn back a little bit.

As I already mentioned in my reply to The Turk, I want to disable the Nationalism requirement, so fixed dates won't be necessary (I'll rather set appropriate timeframes), because a Chinese respawn will already result from an unstable Mongolia.

Also can you spawn a Barbarian Shenyang in Manchuria. The city should be well protected and have high culture to slow down Chinese and Korean conquest of the region. Every few turns 2 horsearchers should spawn in the city.Also it would help if the city flips to Ai Mongolia.

Good idea.

 

[The Turk]

I agree with the Shenyang proposal, but it should be named: Simiyan hoton ; which is the Manchu name for the city. I especially encourage the 2 horse archer bit, that should be good, but starting in 1625 (when the Manchus' made Simiyan hoton their capital), perhaps the barb pressure should increase?

Also I recommend not adding Shi'ite Islam right now. I just don't see it having much of a purpose. But Orthodox Christianity is definitely needed right now, to represent a separate Russia and Byzantium, separating them from Western European Catholicism. Also Leoreth, have you thought about reintroducing Judaism as a minor religion, which spreads from America to China?


Something I was thinking a bit about Leoreth was, what about having each civ have 2 UU's. Specifically to have one represent their spawn unit (their early unit) and another one to represent their modern state. For example:

Egypt:
War Chariot
Mamluk Horse Archer

England:
English Longbowman
Redcoat

Vikings:
Huscarl
Swedish Cavarlymen (the unit from RFC Europe)

Japan:
Samurai
Japanese Zero (fighter plane)

etc. etc.

 

[J. pride]

Leoreth, If you like the Chinese map, I can make revisions to the Indian map also if you want?

 

[Leoreth]

Leoreth, If you like the Chinese map, I can make revisions to the Indian map also if you want?

That'd be great!

I've just finished the trading company conqueror events. They're for the usual colonial civs Spain, France, England, Portugal and Netherlands and each of them has certain city spots assigned. If the plot is free, it gets a settler and some defensive units, if not, war is declared against the owner and a more offensive force is created. Spain gets Manila, England and France focus on India, Netherlands on Indonesia, Portugal all over South Asia.

Currently testing it out, if there are no bugs, I'm going to release it soon.

 

[McWinniage]

Normal RFC, as well as RFC:Asia, RFC:Europe, and RFC:SoI work fine. DoC and Synthesis do not, however.

 

[J. pride]

That'd be great!

Whats your aim/philosophy for India? I was thinking something along the lines that the land is rich (plantation, luxury resources) and fertile (lots of food resources) but lacks production and in effect cannot defend itself. But its ur opinion that matters?

 

[IrishDragon]

While changing Manchuria, any plans to change the Tibetan area? They had a powerful enough empire at one stage which extended into China and Bangledesh, and controlled parts of the Silk Road

 

[ilduce349]

On his map Xian looks like a more suitable starting spot for china...

 

[Linkman226]

Normal RFC, as well as RFC:Asia, RFC:Europe, and RFC:SoI work fine. DoC and Synthesis do not, however.

This is interesting, it would suggest a common bug

 

[McWinniage]

That's what I was thinking. Does anyone else experience this problem?