Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[ozqar]

Would it be possible for some techs to appear earlier on the tech tree for the Asian countries and some earlier for the Europeans?

If it's possible, that would be simply fantastic. It could also help the american civs who also had a very different development of technologies.

 

[Qiu]

Maybe the Chinese UB that related to the Imperial Examination could be unlocked by the discovery of civil services? As the in-game Civilopedia said, one of the oldest known civil services is found in China and it is obviously related to the Confucians study and the Imperial Examination system. Moreover civil services appears earlier than paper in game and that could shape a distinct Chinese research route which is rather similar to the historical one.

btw. test-played several times as China and Korea(monarch and emperor). The new Chinese UP is really fantastic indeed and not over-powered in my opinion. However in monarch I even discovered calendar as well as built the great wall before the Huns horse-archers spawns... The nomadic horse-archers from the north were the most challenging enemies both in game and in history...

And I wonder whether it is right or not that the Korean adopted Buddhism as state-religion as happened in the game. In my opinion in history the Korean people seems prefer Confucianism to Buddhism... Adopting different religions may also lead to more wars between the Koreans and the Japaneses in the game... Please correct me if I were wrong...

 

[civ_king]

Don't know how I can make the Chinese UP visible, although in general it might be good to know which techs are already discovered for tech trading and those various tech goals.

India will get another civ for Muslim India (i.e. Delhi Sultanate and Mughals). Don't know if those Deccan civs really deserve to be in the game, but I'll tune down India's settler output and place some independents there instead.

For Deccan civs it could represent Chola>Vijayanagara>Mysore which stretches from 300BC-AD1799, it could make trouble for the Indians and British.

 

[ilduce349]

More like 1050, but whose counting anyway.

That one dude also came up with this thingamajig

I personally would rather the b^2-4ac then the 4ac+b^2, since you know, its actually correct.

India was still pretty advanced into the 17th century

Proof?

Yes, India should be split into two (plus) civs. One would be NW India and the other would be more ESE, with a third perhaps minor civ in the south representing Mysore that is unplayable and fairly easily vassalizable with rocketeers a musketman replacement with a lot of first strikes.

(although Mysore could just be an independent city)

Maybe the Chinese UB that related to the Imperial Examination could be unlocked by the discovery of civil services? As the in-game Civilopedia said, one of the oldest known civil services is found in China and it is obviously related to the Confucians study and the Imperial Examination system. Moreover civil services appears earlier than paper in game and that could shape a distinct Chinese research route which is rather similar to the historical one.

btw. test-played several times as China and Korea(monarch and emperor). The new Chinese UP is really fantastic indeed and not over-powered in my opinion. However in monarch I even discovered calendar as well as built the great wall before the Huns horse-archers spawns... The nomadic horse-archers from the north were the most challenging enemies both in game and in history...

And I wonder whether it is right or not that the Korean adopted Buddhism as state-religion as happened in the game. In my opinion in history the Korean people seems prefer Confucianism to Buddhism... Adopting different religions may also lead to more wars between the Koreans and the Japaneses in the game... Please correct me if I were wrong...

Koreans were buddhist. Also line to the newest download?

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I think, correct me if I'm mistaken, that Confucianism and Confucian values in specific had a much larger impact on Corean society and development than Buddhism had.

Also, I agree with kaltruhe, Corea should spawn in 300BC.

As for the UHV problem, I'm fairly certain I lost it after Greece finished Paper 3 turns after I did.
EDIT: The other issue is that right when you research the required tech, it doesn't check off as well.

Also, why is southern China listed as a foreign area for China?
I'm hovering over the tiles and it would seem I get a penalty for settling in places like Haojing.
It makes no sense

 

[ilduce349]

I know that Korea pushed Buddhism into Japan and started the major religious war in Japan that lead to Japan adopting Buddhism as their state religion.

However Buddhism was also the dominant religion is China as well after ~700 ad.

Buddhism should easily spread to most cities in Asia naturally after a certain date, since it did in real life.

 

[Leoreth]

Also, why is southern China listed as a foreign area for China?
I'm hovering over the tiles and it would seem I get a penalty for settling in places like Haojing.
It makes no sense

You don't, the stability display is kind of wrong (the display code has > 90 while in fact it should be >= 90), it's over time I set that right.

 

[Sopbucket]

I personally would rather the b^2-4ac then the 4ac+b^2, since you know, its actually correct.

Brahmagupta used a different version of the quadratic equation: ax^2+bx=c, while today we express it as ax^2+bx+c=0 which makes the c negative. It actually is the correct solution, though it isn't completely general (he left out the +/- between -b and the radical).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratic_equation

 

[ilduce349]

though it isn't completely general (he left out the +/- between -b and the radical).

As I said, since its actually correct...

 

[Ekolite]

I think with China's UP, the Great Wall needs to be put at a later tech because I keep seeing it being built around just Xi'an. Looks a bit weird. Or maybe it could be changed to build around the whole of China's core area rather then just their territory at the time?

 

[ilduce349]

The great wall was finished in 218 BC, I would be surprised if the Chinese are getting Toaism and Construction prior enough before hand to get in on a historical date.


But this reminds me of an interesting idea: More realisitc requirements for wonders.

The Great Wall should require loosing a city to barbarians in order to start construction, rather then Toaism. The only reason Qin Shi Haung built the wall was because of how much damage the mongols caused prior to construction.

 

[civ_king]

Brahmagupta used a different version of the quadratic equation: ax^2+bx=c, while today we express it as ax^2+bx+c=0 which makes the c negative. It actually is the correct solution, though it isn't completely general (he left out the +/- between -b and the radical).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratic_equation

Actually the radical was there too

As I said, since its actually correct...

This works half of the time which is a far cry better than having nothing! Plus once he came up with it there was something for the Muslims to improve on.

 

[AOS9001]

Seems my stats for the Chinese UB were used... I'll allow myself a moment to feel proud. Now, to check out this update.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Thank you for all the work you put into this mod, especially the great idea to allow a choice of different speeds. I am playing a Byzantine game of 1.73 Marathon. I love the slow speed, which allowed me to have a proper struggle with Arabia, but I've got some bug reports:

The turn on which Mongolia is supposed to spawn crashes the game. I got around the crash by cancelling the Mongolian spawn (setting the Mongolian spawn in Consts.py to -3000). But that meant no Mongolia.

It's a bad idea to disable starting settlers for the Turks (they are commented out both in the section where it spawns military, and where it spawns workers - is it a bug? And why do the settlers were supposed to spawn with the workers, as readme says?) Their units wander inside the Asia Minor square free of Byzantine culture for two initial turns, then the Byzantine culture closes on these tiles again, the Turks are teleported to Crimea (If Crimea were settled, they'd perhaps teleport to Central Asia, which would be sort of funny), and then I was greeted with the "cede cities or declare war" popup. Awkard.

Italy spawned at Venice. Didn't flip Rome or Naples. Had been doing a rather lame OCC so far, having an inordinate number of units in Venezia that it uses for nothing whatsoever, being busy researching Engineering (60-something turns to go).

Maybe the tech pace and the pace of building units and buildings needs to be slightly faster on Marathon. Granted, it's my first game in this mod, so it might be possible that I am not playing optimally.

Nice touch with the Baghdad - Ctesiphon renaming.

The save game with Mongolian spawn repeatably crashing next turn and not crashing when Mongolia is disabled attached.

 

[ilduce349]

Where is the link to the latest download? Like 1.73 doesn't have Korea or anything but a lot of people seem to be playing one that has it...

 

[Leoreth]

Thank you for all the work you put into this mod, especially the great idea to allow a choice of different speeds. I am playing a Byzantine game of 1.73 Marathon. I love the slow speed, which allowed me to have a proper struggle with Arabia, but I've got some bug reports:

Thanks for playing and the feedback You have to thank embryodead for the game speed options, though.

The turn on which Mongolia is supposed to spawn crashes the game. I got around the crash by cancelling the Mongolian spawn (setting the Mongolian spawn in Consts.py to -3000). But that meant no Mongolia.

That's odd, can someone confirm?

It's a bad idea to disable starting settlers for the Turks (they are commented out both in the section where it spawns military, and where it spawns workers - is it a bug? And why do the settlers were supposed to spawn with the workers, as readme says?) Their units wander inside the Asia Minor square free of Byzantine culture for two initial turns, then the Byzantine culture closes on these tiles again, the Turks are teleported to Crimea (If Crimea were settled, they'd perhaps teleport to Central Asia, which would be sort of funny), and then I was greeted with the "cede cities or declare war" popup. Awkard.

Yeah, the Turks don't work that well currently. The rationale behind removing the starting settlers is that Sögüt only hurts them and there are already lots of cities founded by Byzantium. I'll definitely do something about them later on, though.

Italy spawned at Venice. Didn't flip Rome or Naples. Had been doing a rather lame OCC so far, having an inordinate number of units in Venezia that it uses for nothing whatsoever, being busy researching Engineering (60-something turns to go).

Didn't they found Florence?

Maybe the tech pace and the pace of building units and buildings needs to be slightly faster on Marathon. Granted, it's my first game in this mod, so it might be possible that I am not playing optimally.

Edead finetuned these things, and I won't touch them unless for good reason because I guess he tested that for a while. Keep an eye on this, though, if the problem persists over a number of games.

The save game with Mongolian spawn repeatably crashing next turn and not crashing when Mongolia is disabled attached.

Great, I'll have a look at it.

Where is the link to the latest download? Like 1.73 doesn't have Korea or anything but a lot of people seem to be playing one that has it...

The latest version you can directly download is indeed 1.73.

To get the current working copy of 1.8, you have to get access to my SVN repository. There's a guide in the first post of this thread that explains how.

 

[Ekolite]

I agree that production could be a bit faster on marathon.

 

[AOS9001]

Production could indeed be faster on marathon, it's impossible to get anything done without whipping.

Also, verifying the game does crash on the Mongol spawn.

 

[dragodon64]

Hi, Leoreth, I just started giving DoC a try as the Phoenicians, and I have to say I'm impressed. The new civics are the best change, imo, as they seem to cover human civilization much better than the standard ones.

I read something about the possibility of two Indian civs, and I hugely support this. One of the civs simply has to be Magadha, spawning at Pataliputra c. 800BC (one of the Mahajanapadas), and one of their goals should definitely be to establish the Mauryan Empire by c. 180BC. There should be at least 2 independent cities in India by their arrival (representing the other Mahajanapadas that they conquered) and Purushapuram (representing Gandhara) and Ujjain (representing Avanti) would make solid choices.

With regard to UUs, I have 2 ideas. One is a chariot with perhaps a bonus against melee units or a slightly weaker war elephant available with horseback riding.

One possible idea for a UB is the Lion Capital, which could replace the monument and give +1 stability for each religion in the city, but expire earlier, maybe with Feudalism. I realize this idea might be too out-there.

If this Magadhan civ is to be the representative of all Vedic/Hindu society, the power of Varnas that you currently have for India should fit it quite well.

Thanks for the great mod, and I hope you find my suggestion interesting!

 

[Alduskkel]

BTW Leoreth, I forgot to mention that the Byzantine not spawning bug was with version 1.73.

Also, some other Roman stuff:
-Forum seems kind of useless. Comes a bit late when I have to spend a long time teching to Construction. And even after Construction Monarchy seems more useful (maybe I'm wrong).
-Rome generally doesn't get to be a republic during the time that it was actually a republic. The tech path to philosophy isn't that great (again, gotta get Construction) and Greece tends not to have it when you spawn, and odds are good that you'll kill them before they get it anyway.
-Barbarians too tough? Maybe I suck or am not aggressive enough early on, but it seems like to mount an effective offensive force of Legions I have to leave myself vulnerable to barbarians because I don't have enough defensive Legions.
-On the other hand, while I haven't seen it yet, if Rome can build the Great Wall (is this an Asian-religion only wonder?) then that would make the game a cake walk. Again, I don't even know if this is possible so correct me if I am wrong.