strijder20
Wallowing in irony
I don't really know what you mean: navigate to the file with explorer (without opening the game - go to My Desktop) and double click it. That should automatically launch Civ4.
Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth
- Thread starter Leoreth
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I don't really know what you mean: navigate to the file with explorer (without opening the game - go to My Desktop) and double click it. That should automatically launch Civ4.
You mean I can open a WorldBuilder save just like that?
In any case, it's requiring a program and Civ4 (once I browsed through and found it) won't open it, apparently.
Here's what in my PublicMaps folder. From what I understand both of them are WorldBuilder save files. The one of the right will open with no problems, but the RFC Dawn of Civ save will require a program to open it.
Bonci
King
you have bts installed, do you?
So, I just used the debug mode to observe world history as Babylon in hiding in Antarctica, from 3000 BC to 1867, and I'm impressed with how well this mod is coming along. Without player interaction, I notice, the game plays out very much like history 
. Well, unless you count Sweden becoming a superpower, conquering all three pre-Columbian civs, and a Muslim Danelaw. But I digress.
I do still have a couple things I observed that I feel I should comment on, though. Or... more than a couple. As a disclaimer, I have no bloody idea what I'm talking about, so don't take any of these suggestions too seriously.
Europe
* Ireland is already (sorta) represented by the Celtic city at Dubh Linn, even if they just exist there to be conquered by the English or Vikings. But I think the Scots should be represented the same way as well, and Scotland itself should be removed from England's flip area. A few longbowmen in Edinburgh or Inverness or whichever should at least give England some work to do on the Isles before the age of colonization begins; as it is, it's just sort of a walkover for England.
* There really aren't very many big European wars, in my experience, at least before the modern era when they really just become world wars. The only time I really see them is right after the Reformation, and half the time (as was the case in this game) there's no Reformation wars at all. Maybe colonial wars could serve the purpose of pitting the Euros against each other more often.
Latin America I think I heard that Leo plans to focus on Latin America soon, which is fantastic. So most of these may have little bearing in the future. I feel like I should list them any way.
* Pre-Columbian Mexico really needs a better city name map. I'm kinda tired of seeing Teotihuacans, Tuitans, and what not all over the place. I'm sure there's resources out there with the names of some pre-Columbian settlements at or near the spots being settled (except for those in Texas or whatever, silly Aztecs).
* When Aztec and Inca respawn as Mexico and Peru, they should receive a larger tech boost to keep them from being more or less immediately re-subjugated (in my case by France).
* For some reason the respawned Incas would not be renamed 'Peru' after their respawn, even though their cultural adjective was 'Peruvian'.
* I think the barbs in the Andes need to be toned down slightly once the Inca Empire reaches its full extent. They tend to get raze-happy, which leaves swathes of city ruins in the Andes which the AI generally refuses to re-settle.
* There should probably be one or two independent cities in the Andes for the Inca to conquer. In real life, the Incas expanded their empire by military force, conquering older empires like the Chimu and subsuming their territory. (The same could be said for the Aztecs, but really, most of their important enemies fall under the same tile as Tenochtitlan-Mexico, so it's sorta futile). Currently, with the exception of Tucume, the Inca expand simply by settling territory, which is sort of anti-climactic.
* To my knowledge, I've never seen the Maya respawn. I think that they should have a good chance to respawn in the 19th Century and cause trouble for Mexico, as this is the period in which the Yucatan tried to gain independence from Mexico.
* A good solution to America's refusal to expand to the Pacific may be to have Mexico gain cities in California and the southwest, and then encourage the United States to go to war against Mexico once or twice to take them.
* Mexican and Andean cities currently don't rename to post-colonial names following respawns, unless they happen to have been conquered by Spain, which is increasingly often not the case.
* The Arab-speaking nations (Arabia, Moors, and Egypt) should have more names for Mexican and Andean cities when they get the conquistadors event. In particular, El- or Al-Meksik for Tenochtitlan-Mexico and Wadi al-Hajara for Guadalajara come to mind.
Africa
* When controlled by Rome, at least, Egypt should flip to the Eastern Roman Empire along with Anatolia, the Balkans, and the Levant.
* I think the barbs in the Sahara should be reduced a bit earlier than they are, as it's a bit odd to see camel archers still razing Egyptian cities in the 1600s.
* There should be a couple more African independents or minors, like Kanem-Bornu and the Zulu, so that there isn't so much empty space in the African interior.
* The Malinese have had it too good for too long!
Mali has been known to occasionally win historical victories by accumulating extreme amounts of gold, and usually sees no action in game except against barbs. Maybe there should be a couple other West African states, like Songhai, Ashanti, Sokoto or whatever to pose at least a small challenge.
Trade Companies
As it is, I think it's a bit deterministic that England's only potential Trading Company event is to conquer India, or that Spain's is to capture the Philippines. Perhaps all the options should be open to all the colonizing countries (albeit, that the AI should be heavily inclined to stick with its historical choices) so as to make the Trading Company race slightly more competitive.
Other
* It's nice that Hawaii is actually a nice place to settle now, but no one actually seems to pay it any mind. Maybe there should be an independent/minor Kingdom of Hawaii on the island that potential imperial powers could conquer.
* I think there may need to be some slight tech nerfs. By 1840, England was researching fission; and Portugal was researching combustion, and was in the lead in score despite having very few cities.
* Maybe violent revolutions, like civil wars, the French Revolution, the revolutions of 1848, or other similar events can be represented in game.
... That's my two cents.
. Well, unless you count Sweden becoming a superpower, conquering all three pre-Columbian civs, and a Muslim Danelaw. But I digress.I do still have a couple things I observed that I feel I should comment on, though. Or... more than a couple. As a disclaimer, I have no bloody idea what I'm talking about, so don't take any of these suggestions too seriously.
Europe
* Ireland is already (sorta) represented by the Celtic city at Dubh Linn, even if they just exist there to be conquered by the English or Vikings. But I think the Scots should be represented the same way as well, and Scotland itself should be removed from England's flip area. A few longbowmen in Edinburgh or Inverness or whichever should at least give England some work to do on the Isles before the age of colonization begins; as it is, it's just sort of a walkover for England.
* There really aren't very many big European wars, in my experience, at least before the modern era when they really just become world wars. The only time I really see them is right after the Reformation, and half the time (as was the case in this game) there's no Reformation wars at all. Maybe colonial wars could serve the purpose of pitting the Euros against each other more often.
Latin America I think I heard that Leo plans to focus on Latin America soon, which is fantastic. So most of these may have little bearing in the future. I feel like I should list them any way.
* Pre-Columbian Mexico really needs a better city name map. I'm kinda tired of seeing Teotihuacans, Tuitans, and what not all over the place. I'm sure there's resources out there with the names of some pre-Columbian settlements at or near the spots being settled (except for those in Texas or whatever, silly Aztecs).
* When Aztec and Inca respawn as Mexico and Peru, they should receive a larger tech boost to keep them from being more or less immediately re-subjugated (in my case by France).
* For some reason the respawned Incas would not be renamed 'Peru' after their respawn, even though their cultural adjective was 'Peruvian'.
* I think the barbs in the Andes need to be toned down slightly once the Inca Empire reaches its full extent. They tend to get raze-happy, which leaves swathes of city ruins in the Andes which the AI generally refuses to re-settle.
* There should probably be one or two independent cities in the Andes for the Inca to conquer. In real life, the Incas expanded their empire by military force, conquering older empires like the Chimu and subsuming their territory. (The same could be said for the Aztecs, but really, most of their important enemies fall under the same tile as Tenochtitlan-Mexico, so it's sorta futile). Currently, with the exception of Tucume, the Inca expand simply by settling territory, which is sort of anti-climactic.
* To my knowledge, I've never seen the Maya respawn. I think that they should have a good chance to respawn in the 19th Century and cause trouble for Mexico, as this is the period in which the Yucatan tried to gain independence from Mexico.
* A good solution to America's refusal to expand to the Pacific may be to have Mexico gain cities in California and the southwest, and then encourage the United States to go to war against Mexico once or twice to take them.
* Mexican and Andean cities currently don't rename to post-colonial names following respawns, unless they happen to have been conquered by Spain, which is increasingly often not the case.
* The Arab-speaking nations (Arabia, Moors, and Egypt) should have more names for Mexican and Andean cities when they get the conquistadors event. In particular, El- or Al-Meksik for Tenochtitlan-Mexico and Wadi al-Hajara for Guadalajara come to mind.
Africa
* When controlled by Rome, at least, Egypt should flip to the Eastern Roman Empire along with Anatolia, the Balkans, and the Levant.
* I think the barbs in the Sahara should be reduced a bit earlier than they are, as it's a bit odd to see camel archers still razing Egyptian cities in the 1600s.
* There should be a couple more African independents or minors, like Kanem-Bornu and the Zulu, so that there isn't so much empty space in the African interior.
* The Malinese have had it too good for too long!
Mali has been known to occasionally win historical victories by accumulating extreme amounts of gold, and usually sees no action in game except against barbs. Maybe there should be a couple other West African states, like Songhai, Ashanti, Sokoto or whatever to pose at least a small challenge.Trade Companies
As it is, I think it's a bit deterministic that England's only potential Trading Company event is to conquer India, or that Spain's is to capture the Philippines. Perhaps all the options should be open to all the colonizing countries (albeit, that the AI should be heavily inclined to stick with its historical choices) so as to make the Trading Company race slightly more competitive.
Other
* It's nice that Hawaii is actually a nice place to settle now, but no one actually seems to pay it any mind. Maybe there should be an independent/minor Kingdom of Hawaii on the island that potential imperial powers could conquer.
* I think there may need to be some slight tech nerfs. By 1840, England was researching fission; and Portugal was researching combustion, and was in the lead in score despite having very few cities.
* Maybe violent revolutions, like civil wars, the French Revolution, the revolutions of 1848, or other similar events can be represented in game.
... That's my two cents.
These are the ideas/suggestions/whatever I like the most, there are others I agree with too, but these are the ones that stand out. Starting with the last point I too find the world far too advanced for its age in the late game, and I think part of this is the fact that much of DoC compared to vanilla RFC buffs civilizations instead of nerfing them. Adding wonders, new bonuses, easier colonization and expansion for AI, many such things, all in all it has been wonderful for the game. I fear, however, that it has over-buffed much of the world. Perhaps simply making techs more expensive would do the trick? I have no idea, but that needs to be balanced.
Going backwards, the second point just makes good, fun, historical sense. Good idea!
First point: Post classical Europe was a hotbed for visceral violent conflict for a millennium and more, and medieval Europe definitely misses out on that. I rarely (if ever? I'm trying to think) see AI vs AI wars in Europe previous to the reformation. I always(?) am a contender in the wars I'd like to see, and usually it's my own conquests, or it's my settlements in another civ's core making that civ angry. I don't know any ways to increase the likelihood of wars other that differentiating religion, but if there are some good ways, implement them please Leoreth!
No.. I have never installed VD before the DoC's VD..
How to enter debug mode? I'd like to try that
* Pre-Columbian Mexico really needs a better city name map. I'm kinda tired of seeing Teotihuacans, Tuitans, and what not all over the place. I'm sure there's resources out there with the names of some pre-Columbian settlements at or near the spots being settled (except for those in Texas or whatever, silly Aztecs).
Ironic as it is, I can't find reference to Tuitans on the Internetcan anybody link me to what Tuitan here mean?
I got these name from Wikipedia
Mexico City : مدينة مكسيكو (Medina Meksiko)
Teotihuacan : تيوتيهواكان (Tiotihoakan)
Oaxaca : ولاية واهاكا (Olaia Oahaka)
ImNotHere
Warlord
I really like the parts about Latin America. The Aztecs need to have their CNM redone IMO. Several times I have seen generic Aztec cities all over the Baja peninsula and the desert (Mojave I think). Not only is this ahistorical but the cities are garbage and push the Aztecs further into obscurity. The only solution I can offer is to force the Aztecs to not settle north of Tuitan and instead go for conquering the Maya. Once the Aztecs become the Mexicans then they should settle north toward and including California, Nevada, and Texas.
I completely agree about the Incas. The barbs certainly are raze-happy in that part of the world and often northern cities get razed and never re-settled. I also agree about the conquering old empires for them. Some indies should spawn near Cuzco for them to conquer fast.
Lastly, I completely agree about the Hawaiian Indies. Europeans/Americans didn't settle Hawaii but rather conquered (annexed) it. I agree that an indie city should spawn there and it should be a target of the European powers and America.
rogue131
Byzantine Historian
It's an early morning over here and too sunny to be at work. . . so I'll be quick. I completely agree with you on the matter of increased European wars...the Middle Ages are full of wars between nobilities and different cultures, the fact that most of the DoC medieval and even Reformation is somewhat "lack luster," is a bit disappointing. For instance, where's the Hundred Years War for one? It should break out. Germany could launch a massive campaign on Russia simulating "Teutonic Knights" expanding into the East. Reformation wars definitely need some heating up, not to mention the later mercantile and imperial wars of Europe...I do like the new menu though for the Reformation allowing for toleration, this really presents an interesting question to the player.
I also concur on the need to slow down the tech progress of European civs, too many DoC games have gone by where England is building nukes in 1888 and Russia is working on the Apollo program...Hell one game, USA built the U.N. in the 1840's. . .
Other than that, I've said it before and I'll say it again, DoC is by far one of the best mods for Civ4 BtS...
Please note, that slowing the tech rate and increasing wars has the same effect: slower teching, so I am just proposing that only one of them should be done (if any). In this case it is obvious that more wars is preferable. I would assume that tech trading makes civs too advanced for their eras.
More wars -> less tech trading.
More wars -> less tech trading.
I'll post a more detailed response later, just on the matter of tech speed for now: I've increased European tech speed because they usually were too slow in the medieval era, but this seems to have given them too much of an advantage later in the game. An era specific buff might be a better idea.
I guess seeing more wars in medieval Europe would be good, but we wouldn't want those wars to be too successful, would we ? If in most games one of the major powers is taken out by its neighbors we're losing historicality (I know the word doesn't exist, only I can't find another one). More wars is better, but if Europe constantly loses one of its main contenders due to military defeats before 1500 (France England Spain or Germany are the ones I have in mind) the game is going to be less interesting.
Yes, this is what I was going to say. We don't want conclusive wars (and medieval wars weren't historically conclusive either). In my opinion, the AIs should fight limited wars with their neighbors until the Renaissance/Reformation and then in the Early Modern era start colonial and more imperialist wars. I haven't touched the AIWars module so far but maybe I can achieve something to that effect.
Unfortunately though, if said Civ is one of the colonial powers it can leave a very dull, empty and thus boring map IMO. Civs need to be more inclined to take single cities than to out right exterminate/cripple the other Civ in question.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
Indeed. Make them more likely to sue for peace/wait for fewer turns to start talking.
Currently, they refuse talking for too long (even on Epic, civs typically refuse to talk for decades and even centuries) and make hilariously stupid demands for peace. E.g.: France at war with the whole world: looses Quebec & Louisiana to America, looses Paris to Prussia, Marseilles to Spain. America proposes peace out of pity (and need for cash), France demands New Orleans.
great.taurus
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2010
- Messages
- 149
great.taurus
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2010
- Messages
- 149
Yeah
I have no idea how long has the older civilization in-game. I can't remember but I'm sure Indonesia is not the first new civilization add to the game.
Were the Byzantines the first?
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