Define political correctness

[Tahuti]

Example: overpopulation caused by unchecked population explosion in the third world is a serious problem that could potentially lead to a worldwide collapse.

As Traitorfish pointed, Malthusian predictions like these never bore fruit. I would like to add that all major instances of "over-population" were actually the result of the population numbers becoming unsustainable due to a sudden event that it made so (like a war or a bad harvest), not that the population itself was unsustainable; if it was, it wouldn't have grown as high to begin with.

 

[Borachio]

How anyone can refute the above is a mystery to me.

 

[Leoreth]

But language does shape thinking.

As for the causes, I've addressed that already - in my opinion, PCness becomes a problem when it is employed to inhibit serious public discussion about certain topics. People sometimes think that since we have freedom of speech and whatnot here in the West, we're immune to the self-destructive processes that have affected past societies.

Example: overpopulation caused by unchecked population explosion in the third world is a serious problem that could potentially lead to a worldwide collapse. Unfortunately, it is politically incorrect here in the West to publicly debate coercive measures that would address the problem. Anybody who dared to mention something like that in a high-profile public debate would be shouted down and excluded from the discussion pretty much forever. Therefore we collectively choose to ignore the problem and don't talk about it. Out of sight, out of mind.

The same thing is true in many other cases - problematic behaviour of minorities is the most prominent. This type of self-censorship which we call "political correctness" is potentially very dangerous.

Well, did political correctness really shape your thoughts, or just the parameters of public debate? Considering that your opinion still is the same, I'd say it's only the latter. "Out of sight, out of mind" is exactly what I was talking about: PC doesn't change the situation, only how the situation is addressed.

That's what I meant with "language shapes thought". Making the N-word* a taboo doesn't make anybody less racist, for example.

* which the forum filter doesn't allow me to spell out because it apparently thinks people are unable to use it for anything else than insulting someone

 

[Traitorfish]

Thanks for providing a nice demonstration of the "debating strategy" I was talking about.

I don't think that a rejection of Malthusianism constitutes "political correctness". If anything, the types that you are keen to label "politically correct" share your basic Malthusianism, they just articulate it in ecological rather than imperial terms.

As Traitorfish pointed, Malthusian predictions like these never bore fruit. I would like to add that all major instances of "over-population" were actually the result of the population numbers becoming unsustainable due to a sudden event that it made so (like a war or a bad harvest), not that the population itself was unsustainable; if it was, it wouldn't have grown as high to begin with.

There's also infrastructural factors- the fact that in much of the developing world the problem isn't an inherently unsustainable population, but the difficulty of utilising the abundant natural resources in a stable and efficient manner. Africa could feed itself several times over, if only they were given the opportunity.

 

[Gigaz]

Let's say I claim that the holocaust never happened. That would surely be politically incorrect and I think we all agree that I lie or that I have some really bad sources of information.
I think that political correctness does almost everytime come down to this. Someone has a stupid opinion and wants to increase his popularity by claiming to be a victim.

 

[Leoreth]

Can you elaborate? What's political correctness here? Making false claims like your holocaust denialist or telling him to shut up?

 

[Formaldehyde]

I think by far the largest effect political correctness has had in the US is to drive racism underground. It is simply not acceptable anymore to overtly express it. This has brought about code words and dog whistles to replace being able to do so.

Otherwise, political correctness hasn't really had much effect other than to make people think a bit about being more civil and polite when discussing ethnic groups, handicaps, etc.

The only other effect has been to turn it into a pejorative to try to lend credence to dubious assertions, much like "playing the race card" has become.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Thanks for providing a nice demonstration of the "debating strategy" I was talking about.

So it's excessively polite to call someone a crank? Because I'm pretty sure anything worse and the mods will come down on us.

 

[Gigaz]

Can you elaborate? What's political correctness here? Making false claims like your holocaust denialist or telling him to shut up?

I talk about the false claims.

 

[Glassfan]

Let's say I claim that the holocaust never happened. That would surely be politically incorrect and I think we all agree that I lie or that I have some really bad sources of information.
I think that political correctness does almost everytime come down to this. Someone has a stupid opinion and wants to increase his popularity by claiming to be a victim.

Somewhat agree. Political Correctness often occurs when someone confuses his opinions/biases with reality. Holocaust deniers are often antisemites. Evolution deniers are often creationists. When you let your personal opinions or prejudices substitute for how you think the world really works, we can label that PC. Though there are other kinds as well.

 

[Glassfan]

See "Racist Cake" thread.

 

[metatron]

I don't know how you define "political correctness" but it is one of those things that have "gone mad".

health and safety - gone mad
multiculturalism - gone mad
etc

cliches (that's the word)

In many cases conservatives use "gone mad" as newspeak for 'actually happening'.
The only way multiculturalism could have not "gone mad" would have been by not actually happening at all.

+100 points

+another 100 points

Example: overpopulation caused by unchecked population explosion in the third world is a serious problem that could potentially lead to a worldwide collapse. Unfortunately, it is politically incorrect here in the West to publicly debate coercive measures that would address the problem. Anybody who dared to mention something like that in a high-profile public debate would be shouted down and excluded from the discussion pretty much forever. Therefore we collectively choose to ignore the problem and don't talk about it. Out of sight, out of mind.

This is an excellent example.
The problem here is that the premise is utterly flawed (that's the political correct term for "a freaking lie"). For something to be "explosive" the f'' has to be positive...pretty much by definition.
Due to that fault what you wrote acutally distracts from the debate of the issues of population grwoth and shortage of resources and acts as an anchor for people with an alterior motive (like racists) to hijack that debate.
Political correctness is supposed to remedy that by demanding a certain level of precision and reduction of ambiguity.

That's actually something many people don't get about political correctness. It is supposed to foster the usage of more precise terms. Whenever it does the opposite you're very much doing it wrong.

Otherwise, political correctness hasn't really had much effect other than to make people think a bit about being more civil and polite when discussing ethnic groups, handicaps, etc.

Well you can't really claim anymore that writing checks to boarding schools, nannies, tutors etc. is very much not the same damn thing as handing out fries 50 hours a week.

That is political correctness gone mad.

 

[AlpsStranger]

and a feature of the early twenty one tens, in America, before that country was made bankrupt and destroyed in a nuclear malstrom. Justly destroyed.

Hah!

I have soda in my nose now!

<3 you MisterCooper!

So, is your Christians-only Republic going to be all post-apocalyptic? Will the Radscorpions be a big problem?

 

[Leoreth]

Well you can't really claim anymore that writing checks to boarding schools, nannies, tutors etc. is very much not the same damn thing as handing out fries 50 hours a week.

That is political correctness gone mad.

I'm happy you ended your post with that remark, because otherwise it really seemed to be implying that political correctness is only a weapon employed by the left with the good intention of elevating the debate. It isn't. The current "don't you dare to even discuss motherhood" shitstorm in the US proves how the taboos associated with political correctness prevent actual debate.

 

[del62]

I havent read all the responses here, mainly because I think most ppl in this section are a tad bonkers

But one example of what might be called political correctness I observed in the Guardian newspaper in the UK recently related to the recent shooting of Jewish children in France

Before the identity of the killer was known the far right were blamed and various articles in the paper basically blamed Sarkozy, however once it came out that the killer was an extremeist Islamist, no discussion was made about those who allow for such people to feed on the islamist anti-semitic doctrines

 

[Traitorfish]

Is that down to political correctness, or simply the fact that the last attack of its kind in Europe was undertaken by a far-rightist? It doesn't seem entirely obvious that it would be one any more than the other.

 

[del62]

What would have been nice in the guardian though would have been an analysis of the insideous anti-semitism that lurks deeply within islamist groups and those that enable and feed this anti-semitism (in much the same way as they do with far right groups), but you couldn't imagine the guardian doing such because of its inate political correctness and the likelyhood that on some occasions it is they (the Guardian) that are part of the enablers.

 

[Traitorfish]

Or maybe because it's a newspaper, not a journal of political science?

 

[del62]

I dont think it is fair to call the Guardian a newspaper, it is more a propoganda rag

 

[Traitorfish]

Well, I don't think it's fair to use the term "propaganda" like that. The word has done nothing to hurt you, and to see it so abused like that is nothing short of intolerable.