DocT5- The RaR Deity Trial

[Greebley]

Except if Russia uses its money to buy a tech we already have from China. In that case the money is just going to the tech leader.

If you do want them to research, then at least gift them all our techs. That way if they buy one they will get one we do not have.

My feeling though is that gold is never useless. We will spend it at some point.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Well, we should check if Russia knows China at all - if they do, you're right.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Except if Russia uses its money to buy a tech we already have from China. In that case the money is just going to the tech leader.

If you do want them to research, then at least gift them all our techs. That way if they buy one they will get one we do not have.

My feeling though is that gold is never useless. We will spend it at some point.

I agree here.The gold will have its use if it comes to upgrading our units and since we haven't Smiths yet there may be times when we need every coin.The Enceclopedie also doesn't last forever.

 

[Tinkez]

Except if Russia uses its money to buy a tech we already have from China. In that case the money is just going to the tech leader.

If you do want them to research, then at least gift them all our techs. That way if they buy one they will get one we do not have.

My feeling though is that gold is never useless. We will spend it at some point.

I agree here.The gold will have its use if it comes to upgrading our units and since we haven't Smiths yet there may be times when we need every coin.The Enceclopedie also doesn't last forever.

I thought we agreed at some point to switch to constitutional monarchy. To my current knowledge we're still in rebublic and we passed the revolution for absolute monarchy. Constitutional monarchy is a cash-rush government, so the gold would be useful there. And that isn't far away as we already have federalism.

Therefore my vote is : Get the money from Russia and revolt to const. monarchy asap.

 

[Tinkez]

Hey Mad-Bax, please advise the situation. Have you played and if not, how long do you require?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

We all know how much work mad-bax has with the SGotMs, so it's fine for me if he needs a bit more than 24/48. However, are you able to play at all within the next two days, m-b?

If not, it's over to Greebley again.

 

[Tinkez]

We all know how much work mad-bax has with the SGotMs, so it's fine for me if he needs a bit more than 24/48. However, are you able to play at all within the next two days, m-b?

If not, it's over to Greebley again.

Yes, I do know Mad-Bax has a lot to do with SGotMs (Great job on those games! ) and therefore I asked what's the situation. I just would like to see this game moving too, and 5 days without any partial report deserves a question of status, IMHO.

 

[mad-bax]

Very Sorry it's so late.

1050AD: Pre-turn.
Looks like this game is pretty much wrapped up. What a good job you lot have done.
Shouldn't take too much effort to put that right though!

IBT:
hmmm... Persia doesn't like us in his territory. I don't want a war on the first turn since I need a couple to get into it. So our troops automove.

We get the summer gardens prompt.
Indians complete Sistine Chapel.

1060AD:
Capture Koln, but in a freak result an army dies to a pike.
We need more boats.
Sell Music Theory to Russia for 492g + 32gpt
we learn Steam Power.

IBT:
Americans build Magellans

1070AD:
I think I'm going to go into build mode. We need Constitutional Monarchy NOW. And we need boats. Can't get boats without CM though, we need to cash rush.

1080AD:
Nothing new. Still takes a long time though.

1090AD:
The Chinese learn TOE, so I buy it for 1245g
Research set to NAtionalism en-route to High explosives and rails.
Switch Bison River to TOE

IBT:
Babylon and Persia sign a Peace Treaty.

1100AD:
Not much is new. Might need to prepare for a Persian War. We need it anyway but I wanted Constitutional Monarchy first. I am tempted to revolt now, though this would mean losing TOE. Tsk.. I'm going to do it.

We dial 6 turns of Anarchy.

IBT:
The Chinese complete Clausewitz.

1110AD:
Indians and Chinese learn Nationalism on the same turn.
I buy it from the Indians for Steam power. I could also have got 4gpt but didn't take it for a 20 turn tie in.

IBT:
Indians Complete Bachs.
Chinese begin TOE. (We have a small head start, but no chance really).

1120AD:
At this point I want to declare war on China and rope India in on an MA. By the time China could land troops we would be in CM. China is already in CM and India is a Federal Republic. We still have 8 turns left on a deal to run with China though.

1130AD:
Workers work - which is more than I can say for SGOTM5

1140AD:
More of the same. Need more workers soon for railing I guess.

IBT:
A lot of Lux deals expire.

1150AD:
Trade our Horses, Camels and Saltpetre to Russia for Wine, Spices, 278g and WM
Trade Indias Silks and Tea for Tobacco, Incense, Wool and 194g

Our world map is very valuable by the way. I'm not giving it up.

Persia Dial us up, but have nothing to say. May be a bug? See attached image.

1160AD:
We are a constitutional monarchy.
I have allowed the dyes deal with China to expire. I would declare on them now and rope India in on an MA.
CivAssist is reporting several broken deals. I can trade gpt with everyone except America. I have no idea why this is the case. I have done nothing that could break our rep. Aah I see it now. China is taking over America and has cut the furs from them.

China and India MUST be made to fight IMO.

Keeping the save for 6 days is clearly unacceptable. Unfortunately, not only am I busy but this is the first RaR game I have played and particularly the pre-turn just takes an age.

I would like to continue in the game, but if it is going to cause trouble then I'd rather step back.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I'd love to keep you aboard, mad-bax.
6 days isn't great, but no killer.

Few questions/comments:
Coal?
Camels - those have a pretty high chance to deplete, do not trade them all away, may kill our Rep.
Will India survive a war with China? Or do we need to get troops there (pillaging Defensive Army!)? Or should we do that anyway?

Over to Greebley!

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it.

Madbax, any tiime a swap would help your schedule, feel free to ask for one. My schedule is fairly flexible.

 

[mad-bax]

I didn't have time to post more yesterday.
However,

We have coal in ex-Germany.
The Indians will suffer greatly in a war with Persia, but I think they will survive 20 turns at least.
I didn't know that camels had a high risk of depleting.

As for wars...
Now that we can cash rush then I think we have 3 options.
We can short rush the production improvements in the cities that will benefit and then build militarily, or we can use our savings right now to short rush units. If we do the latter then we must either fight Persia or China.

For me, Persia would be my preference, partly because it is my natural preference to clear the start continent, and partly because the benefit to us is greater. I have allowed all deals with China and Persia to expire to allow either option. If we take on Persia then we can allow India and China to degrade each others units and slow the tech rate a little to compensate for our unit production rather than tech/commercial expansion.

I am not sure we will need to research particularly quickly after high explosives. This is another reason for taking on Persia. We are short of workers, and we can get a lot of workers from Persia for railing which will begin in around 25 turns.

I'm not sure if we had a victory condition in mind, but I think domination would be favourite. If that is the case, then about half way through the Persian war we should build a fleet to go to China. It is feasible I guess to research to flight, get a beach head in China and airlift, but I think ships would be far quicker.

 

[grs]

Clearing our starting continent first sounds good. It will allow us to use less military portection - if any - in non coastal cities.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Clear our continent. Persia is MIL/IND here, no need to keep them around for a free tech. And, with a second FP in their land, plus the Supreme Court, we will have a huge productive empire.

Techs:
RRs, Parks (Pollution kills), Trenchers are what we need. And Mass Production for one of the best wonders - Crystal Palace (+150% Production in that city, +25% everywhere).

Victory:
Domination or Space. But I don't see this affecting us ATM; we can mop up the weaklings at any time with Marines, we only have to worry about China, and take care about Persia regardless of our goal.

India-China:
But, if China will win this war easily, why do we want them to fight it? To get Smith's and more Luxes/land, so they can pull even further ahead? If we get those fighting, we must cripple China ourselves, otherwise it is absolutely counterproductive!

 

[mad-bax]

China will have devoured America in Greebleys set and have gained furs already. India is capable of researching new techs as are China, but we are close to being able to outstrip them. If China do wipe out or cripple India then China will no longer have a trading partner, since Persia will already be dead or dying. The tech race will no longer be an issue.

My expectation is that the war against Persia will last 15 turns. After say 8 turns we can short rush a fleet and join the Chinese war proactively, taking the former American cities and any captured Indian cities first. This will happen about 18 turns from the Declaration with Persia. Once the ship chain is set up we should be able to transport 6 units per turn to China and leave only a token force in the Sioux nation.
Because we will be railing by then we will only need enough units at home for the minimum MP requirement.

I don't think China has the time to benefit from any expansion through a war with India. Remember also that they will be at war with us and will attempt to transport three or four units per turn to our house, this will handicap them against India.

I think you worry too much Doc. I'm ready to buckle my swash personally.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I think you worry too much Doc.

No, I'm not worried about the outcome of the game; I just don't want to deal with too much WW.

 

[mad-bax]

Do you know why I got the blank diplo screen BTW? I panicked that in closing that window I had broken a gpt deal.

 

[Greebley]

I don't know what causes the blank screen, but have gotten it in a normal civ game as well.

I think you can cancel it fine since it is a "do you want to renew" dialog. You are just saying no which doesn't break rep.

 

[Greebley]

I hope to play this tonight.

 

[Pfeffersack]

(...) I don't think China has the time to benefit from any expansion through a war with India. Remember also that they will be at war with us and will attempt to transport three or four units per turn to our house, this will handicap them against India.(...)

Thats why I like bigger transports, the AI has at least the ability to send more troops at once.On lower levels it is however rarerly the case because they lack units, but on Deity this could get interesting

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: We are still running lux. I set science to 100% instead (We can get Industrialization for 1/2 the buying price from China).

Early: With 3 turns left the price for Industrialization has come way down. I buy it for Elephants and 1380 gold.

Mid: Start war with Persia. I make a mistake with the army and it is very low on HP. I will try to save it...
Well I saved the Army but lost Kish which costs me 2 Cavaliers. Not playing well tonight.
Take back the city the next turn so it turns out ok. I raze Eridu.
We pick up Grand stategy and Free Artistry via the Encyclopedia.
Germany is Destroyed

Late: Things are stable. No progres on Persia yet. We are killing their troop though.
These adventurers are awesome for hit and run pillaging and killing units in jungle and then retreating. Decide to build another.
Raise Lux to 10% for Bison River.
We get Steam Engine. I trade to china for 4950 gold
Our Army gets unlucky and dies to a line infantry. Argh!

Notes:
Only took 9 turns to make us even again (MB played 11).

We didn't have the Forbidden palace yet so I started it. It will be built next turn.

We are building TOE in 5 and getting High Explosives in 5. I think that should work (give us explosives and then two techs, rather than explosives and another tech). Does anyone know for sure?

I am building some science buildings as we will be in the lead with tech. We should be able to get huge cash from China for our free techs.

I think we should eliminate Babylon. We can probably do so fairly easily.

Go to Larsa and decide if you want to abandon it. Persia will probably take it next turn.