Free speech and sedition?

[Cutlass]

Due no doubt to the firestorm of opposition I unleased on the issue, the cowardly Democrats have abandoned this amendment.

There, you see, is how democracy is supposed to work. They lose. We win.

And lots of innocent people get murdered. I'm sure you feel proud of yourself.

 

[Leoreth]

There, you see, is how democracy is supposed to work. They lose. We win.

I thought that was how kindergarten is supposed to work but whatever.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Anybody fancy getting back to me on this one?

Well, when you get to the community level, it becomes: "Is it OK to tax the well off to help those that are less fortunate." I think the answer to that question is best debated in another thread (For the record, I'm not saying the answer is "No" I think the answer will be different degrees of "Yes.")

However, if you view it from a state-wide perspective, this is no longer really the "Taking from the fortunate to give to the unfortunate" that will not be discussed here, its taking from one large group of people to give to another (Theoretically) equally well-off group of people. And its doing so on grounds that have very little to do with the people that are paying in.

I don't know why the state-level is the standard, nor do I think it should have to be. Heck there was a (I'm not sure how serious) movement at one point for Long Island to secede from New York because the island is paying something like 3 billion more in taxes than its actually getting. While I certainly understand WHY the discrepancy (Upstate New York is bigger and has less people, so more road coverage for less people) but I don't like it, and, at least in theory, would have no problem with Long Island wanting to secede from New York to correct the problem.

So yeah, its not JUST the state level, you do have a point there. But a state is still a smaller building block of the whole, so to take the same amount of money from all the states, and refusing to give one state the benefits of that money that its people paid unless they change their laws should be considered more or less equivalent morally to making them change their laws.

 

[Lord Gay]

Let me see if I have this right:

Annual murders in Florida = X
Rs think X < Satisfactory, so pass SYG law
Annual murders in Florida = 3X
3X = S
Ds threaten -$ unless -X
Mister Cooper's anger multiplies at Ds attempt to subtract X. Proposes +X on Ds to balance equation. Forum divided in opinion, additional comments follow.

How to solve for X?

@TF- But they're specifically giving money to other states, yet not to Florida, which is forcing Florida and its taxpayers to subsidize other states. Simply immoral.

IIRC my state of CT nets one of the country's lowest federal returns getting back something like only 64 cents for every dollar. The last report I saw suggested that the states with low returns were mainly blue states, while most of those benefitting were red states. Maybe all those Florida Rs should take a stand against welfare and just say no to sucking gvt's ****.

(that's teat btw )

 

[mangxema]

yeah these sorts of kinks would have to get worked out.

That's not a 'kink'; that's a pretty fundamental design flaw that should have been worked out before passage.

 

[History_Buff]

I don't know why the state-level is the standard, nor do I think it should have to be. Heck there was a (I'm not sure how serious) movement at one point for Long Island to secede from New York because the island is paying something like 3 billion more in taxes than its actually getting. While I certainly understand WHY the discrepancy (Upstate New York is bigger and has less people, so more road coverage for less people) ...

I doubt it. Real estate in Long Island is extremely expensive. There aren't a lot of poor people there. Thus it's very unlikely any of them are seeing any direct return on their taxes, which are likely all being spent in the poor areas of NYC.

 

[JollyRoger]

I doubt it. Real estate in Long Island is extremely expensive. There aren't a lot of poor people there. Thus it's very unlikely any of them are seeing any direct return on their taxes, which are likely all being spent in the poor areas of NYC.

Actually, rich people are disporportionately using the civil court system where the shortfalls are covered by taxes on all. There are likely other such items.

 

[History_Buff]

Hmm, I suppose that is true.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Due no doubt to the firestorm of opposition I unleased on the issue, the cowardly Democrats have abandoned this amendment.

Um, and who are you?

 

[Core Imposter]

For those who think I am a bit out on the right wing when I cry tryanny, corruption, and warn of the growing police state, I post a link for consideration.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...s-the-looter/2012/05/18/gIQAUIKVZU_story.html

 

[GhostWriter16]

IIRC my state of CT nets one of the country's lowest federal returns getting back something like only 64 cents for every dollar. The last report I saw suggested that the states with low returns were mainly blue states, while most of those benefitting were red states. Maybe all those Florida Rs should take a stand against welfare and just say no to sucking gvt's ****.

(that's teat btw )

I don't know what Florida is getting compared to other states, I just think the principal of "You aren't entilted to anything" doesn't apply to those who are pay taxes, since they are paying and thus should gain something from it.

I doubt it. Real estate in Long Island is extremely expensive. There aren't a lot of poor people there. Thus it's very unlikely any of them are seeing any direct return on their taxes, which are likely all being spent in the poor areas of NYC.

IIRC it wasn't about direct return so much as it was about internal improvements and such, ergo Long Island (IIRC) was paying like 8.1 billion dollars in New York State taxes but only 5.9 billion dollars of government money was actually being spent on improving Long Island.

 

[Cutlass]

For those who think I am a bit out on the right wing when I cry tryanny, corruption, and warn of the growing police state, I post a link for consideration.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...s-the-looter/2012/05/18/gIQAUIKVZU_story.html

The irony of people like you claiming government is so terrible is that government is only terrible, and only does the things you claim to oppose, when people like you are running the government.

 

[potatokiosk]

Due no doubt to the firestorm of opposition I unleased on the issue, the cowardly Democrats have abandoned this amendment.

There, you see, is how democracy is supposed to work. They lose. We win.

Yes, if not for your leadership the Republican-dominated House might have passed an amendment proposed by Democrats. Well done sir.

 

[kochman]

The irony of people like you claiming government is so terrible is that government is only terrible, and only does the things you claim to oppose, when people like you are running the government.

Yes, we all know if democrats ran everything, we'd all have our own unicorn ranches to live on, with timely mass transit that operates on water molecules found in the air (which also reduces humidity without damaging the evironment).
We don't need to have any opposing party, for Cutlass and his ilk have it all figured out. Just give them the power already, and stop complaining. Everything will be better. Promise.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Yes, we all know if democrats ran everything, we'd all have our own unicorn ranches to live on, with timely mass transit that operates on water molecules found in the air (which also reduces humidity without damaging the evironment).
We don't need to have any opposing party, for Cutlass and his ilk have it all figured out. Just give them the power already, and stop complaining. Everything will be better. Promise.

To back you up, even if you think the Democratic Party is way better than the Republican Party, you still have to realize the benefits of HAVING the competition, it will at least help you (Theoretically anyway) to make your own party better...

 

[Traitorfish]

Surely that depends on the competition?

 

[History_Buff]

IIRC it wasn't about direct return so much as it was about internal improvements and such, ergo Long Island (IIRC) was paying like 8.1 billion dollars in New York State taxes but only 5.9 billion dollars of government money was actually being spent on improving Long Island.

Well, assuming New York has some sort of progressive tax system, wouldn't that make perfect sense, given that Long Islanders tend to earn more than the rest of the state? The proportions might be off, but that doesn't seem to be the argument anyone is making, so lets ignore that for now.

 

[Flying Pig]

Surely that depends on the competition?

As long as they have non-zero popular support, they force the main party to stay competitive.

 

[Save_Ferris]

Guns don't kill people. Guns are harmless.

Bullets kill people.

 

[Leoreth]

Didn't we conclude in another thread that it's always physical formulae which kill people?