French teacher murdered for Muhammad

[Ajidica]

Yes he is Chechen, but the murder is clearly religiously motivated,

Is it though? The BBC reported that he shouted some religious phrases, but that does not necessarily mean the attack was religiously motivated in a sense we would understand it. That Texas lady a couple years ago who drowned her children in a bathtub did so because she thought God told her to and said prayers as she was drowning them, but we would all understand that as a sign of severe mental illness and not as being motivated by Christianity.
We also do not know what connection there was between the attacker and the teacher. Nothing in the last BBC article I saw on the subject indicated there was a connection between the attacker and the teacher. Now, there may have been a connection, and it seems likely, but saying that the teacher was murdered over what he was teaching is not supported by what has been reported.

 

[Tee Kay]

It’s not state policy in most Christian countries to decapitate or stone to death atheists, or Jews, or gays, or ex-Christians, or unmarried women who have accused a man of adultery.

FWIW, it's not state policy in most Muslim countries either.

 

[innonimatu]

The real problem is that islamic fanaticism is being promoted and protected by very powerful countries, interested in using those fanatics in their imperial wars. And lets not forget, wars that were cheered on by many of the forum members here. The "moderate" rebel cutthroats in Syria, the slavers in Lybia, etc.

 

[amadeus]

FWIW, it's not state policy in most Muslim countries either.

I admit it’s a bit of hyperbole on my part.

 

[Estebonrober]

Is it though? The BBC reported that he shouted some religious phrases, but that does not necessarily mean the attack was religiously motivated in a sense we would understand it. That Texas lady a couple years ago who drowned her children in a bathtub did so because she thought God told her to and said prayers as she was drowning them, but we would all understand that as a sign of severe mental illness and not as being motivated by Christianity.
We also do not know what connection there was between the attacker and the teacher. Nothing in the last BBC article I saw on the subject indicated there was a connection between the attacker and the teacher. Now, there may have been a connection, and it seems likely, but saying that the teacher was murdered over what he was teaching is not supported by what has been reported.

Teacher posits lesson on freedom of speech, outrage ensues, videos go viral calling for said teacher's head, troubled young man provides head. I mean I get you do not have personal motivation here yet (maybe he had a sibling in this class, maybe he is disaffected immigrant like so many in France), but you have all the trappings of a religiously inspired execution.

 

[El_Machinae]

Liberals are tempted to defend the patriarchy if it's patriarchy written using the scripture of another language

There is some type of matrix we use, that I've not been able to tap.

Mental illness percolates through our society, and it will express itself using the religious themes of the local or personal culture. This will express itself as one-off incidents. About 0.01% of people will be sociopathic schizophrenic, which means that they'd be happy to kill people for the voices in their head. That's one in ten thousand. It's going to happen.

But if a scripture is able to convince a group of people to engage in atrocities, you know that there is something fundamental to this scripture itself that allows the interpretation

 

[red_elk]

It should also be noted all we know about the killer is that he was an 18 year old Chechen.

It was also reported that he was born in Moscow and got political asylum in France.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Is it though? The BBC reported that he shouted some religious phrases, but that does not necessarily mean the attack was religiously motivated in a sense we would understand it. That Texas lady a couple years ago who drowned her children in a bathtub did so because she thought God told her to and said prayers as she was drowning them, but we would all understand that as a sign of severe mental illness and not as being motivated by Christianity.
We also do not know what connection there was between the attacker and the teacher. Nothing in the last BBC article I saw on the subject indicated there was a connection between the attacker and the teacher. Now, there may have been a connection, and it seems likely, but saying that the teacher was murdered over what he was teaching is not supported by what has been reported.

We may never know the motive.

Even if the attacker yells out "Allahu Ackbar" and tweets an insult to President Macron followed by, "I executed one of your hellhounds for daring to belittle Muhammad."

A real mystery.


Anyways, hopefully the teacher was dead before the head cutting.

 

[innonimatu]

It was also reported that he was born in Moscow and got political asylum in France.

As I was saying certain countries like to collect pet jihadis for future deployment in imperial wars. Sometimes they misbehave. How embarrassing... Another mystery right? who do they persist in doing this.
My take is that these countries have a military-industrial-intelligence-civil servant complex that feeds on imperial wars. And couldn't care less for the death and miserly, whether by the millions in their targets or the occasional one at home.

 

[Narz]

If we believe as @Zardnaar said: Islam and the Muslim are irredeemable in quality, so what else can you do except just wipe us away?

I don't think anyone on here would condone religious attacks

Also, I'm not against religious people just religion in general. Most people take the good and ignore the sketchy parts.

In the playground the other day I was talking w this other dad for about half hour. He said he'd be married for over a decade and I asked him the secret to a good marriage. He said faith and studying Bible together helped him and his wife (and not casting blame but accepting some responsibility for stuff even if it seemed 100% the other person's fault)

I'm not gonna argue w that and if it helps him so be it.

Even tho I think Islam has more core problems within their scripture in some ways I respect its devotees more than other religions. For example honoring Ramadan is pretty hard-core.

I know I probably come off like a hateful atheist sometimes but I don't want to seem like a bigot. I understand the community building and fear-reducing aspects or religion but because of the nature of jealous-god combined w in and out-groups and the fact that there will always be those who shun/mock religion it does seem like violence will be inevitable

 

[stinkubus]

But what about the Christian radicals?

It’s not state policy in most Christian countries to decapitate or stone to death atheists, or Jews, or gays, or ex-Christians, or unmarried women who have accused a man of adultery.

It’s not state policy to ban the showing of religious icons in private publications. It’s not state policy to have an official religion one must adhere to, with a separate judiciary.

This kind of barbarism isn’t supported by the majority of Christians, at least in the Western world, but it sure seems popular at the policy level in some decidedly non-Christianized Middle East and South Asian countries.

Such barbarous punishments for crimes are enacted by regimes that have the undying love and material support of the US government. Radical Islam, as we understand it today, did not spring up on its own; the US state department and various machinations of the national security state have nurtured it and ensured it would spread throughout the region.

 

[r16]

islam bans pictures attempting to depict Allah , because it is an article of Faith that the created can not understand their Creator . And Muhammed , because the era was one of paganism , people would make an idol of pictures , so much like the Orthodox icons .

coming to this era , where there are massive efforts by anyone involved to "control" lslam , even if Oil is indeed losing its allure , the new breed stresses the rituals over basic principles . Like any sin can be forgiven by a given number of prayers . As in lSlL dudes and their viagra pills , do anything and it is okey ... The caricature crises over the years have been much reinforced to extremes .

and of course , because Macron does not want to do anything to New Turkey because it looks evermore glittery when it comes to some proxy war to kill the enemies of the West , he instead once again "blamed" lslam and promised to "reform" it . Am pretty sure Deuxime Bureau already knows who chose some fool the armoury as it is and let loose him . After 15 minutes of talking and nothing more . lt's quite an industry out there , raising extremists .

 

[H4run]

I don't think anyone on here would condone religious attacks

Also, I'm not against religious people just religion in general. Most people take the good and ignore the sketchy parts.

In the playground the other day I was talking w this other dad for about half hour. He said he'd be married for over a decade and I asked him the secret to a good marriage. He said faith and studying Bible together helped him and his wife (and not casting blame but accepting some responsibility for stuff even if it seemed 100% the other person's fault)

I'm not gonna argue w that and if it helps him so be it.

Even tho I think Islam has more core problems within their scripture in some ways I respect its devotees more than other religions. For example honoring Ramadan is pretty hard-core.

I know I probably come off like a hateful atheist sometimes but I don't want to seem like a bigot. I understand the community building and fear-reducing aspects or religion but because of the nature of jealous-god combined w in and out-groups and the fact that there will always be those who shun/mock religion it does seem like violence will be inevitable

Appreciate the honesty in your post.

I don't think the problem in Islam or Muslim is based on our concept of God or anything like that. Every Muslim know that a mockery or a praised would not increase nor decrease God dignity even for an inch, that's pretty much meaningless for God, we do worship for our own benefit. A God and Prophets are definitely something that very important to Muslim, just like perhaps as important or more important like your daughter means to you, it is a sensitive subject that perhaps as sensitive or more sensitive like the N word means to the African American. Perhaps free-speech would give you the right to call a black American an "N" word in-front of their face, but there is no guarantee some people would take matter to his own hand for such mockery.

If we have dinner together, and you drew a face of the Prophet at the dinner table, I might not snap out and went after you with a fork in my hand, but I will walk-out from the restaurant and consider you to be a rude intolerant simpleton. I don't ask you to respect my faith, that's a silly offer, I ask you to respect the courtesy and leave your disrespect behind because it's unnecessary, we know you have it in you, as perhaps I might also don't respect your world view, but lets grow up and tolerate each other ideological different and enjoy each other as personality. Do we have to have an open battle to unified each of our disagreement until we can have a courtesy to one and another?

And I think Islamophobia kill and harass more Muslim in the West than Muslims extremist did (it's dwarf in comparison), but whenever it happened we just shrug off and continue our life, but whenever a Muslim extremist or radical did something, the whole Muslim and the core tenets of Islam being questioned. For me is like whatever, I'm tired of it.

There were lots of Western people live in Indonesia, a populated Muslim country, can you imagine if we reacted for every Islamophobes acts to the tourist or expats here? But it seems we already figure it out and separated the context perfectly they are pretty much well respected and welcome in hospitality, but some many people in the west still having a problem to separated who is who and what is what, and lots of people in the West still see Muslim in a biggotic point of view.

 

[red_elk]

Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov condemned the attack, said Chechen origin of the murderer has nothing to do with it, because he spent almost all his life in France.
He also urged people not to provoke Muslims and not hurt their religious feelings.

 

[innonimatu]

And I think Islamophobia kill and harass more Muslim in the West than Muslims extremist did (it's dwarf in comparison), but whenever it happened we just shrug off and continue our life, but whenever a Muslim extremist or radical did something, the whole Muslim and the core tenets of Islam being questioned. For me is like whatever, I'm tired of it.

Only if islamophobia had any role in the instigation of wars in the middle east. And it doesn't. Islamophobia is killing very few people in the west, or even in india up to now, compared to the number killed by sectarian wars among islamic groups.

Sure, I blame certain western governments (and certain others, arabs and pakistan are the worst) for manipulating those. But the western governments at least are not manipulating them out of islamophobia.
The availability to go along with murder is indeed a current problem among many of the followers of islam. Don't try to shake that off by blaming others for instigation: it takes receptivity also. In short: it's not a "religion of peace". It didn't start as one and it has strong currents now that are not of peace.

He also urged people not to provoke Muslims and not hurt their religious feelings.

I don't have to give a damn about hurt religious feelings, to live afraid of being murdered by crazy people with "hurt religious feelings" because I'm atheist or draw their their precious prophet. The problem is with them.

 

[H4run]

Only if islamophobia had any role in the instigation of wars in the middle east.

What? What is the correlation here?

Islamophobia is killing very few people in the west, or even in india up to now,

Of course in 2020 alone the Delhi massacre angry Hindus mobs in India killed 53 Muslim is too little to you, but a Muslim extremist killed 1 people that would be too much for you (edit: Lets microscope the whole Muslim body!).

Don't try to shake that off by blaming others for instigation

Haa? Try to shake off what? I think you the one who try to shake off and trivialized the problem and causalities of Islamophobia that you are currently propagating here.

I don't have to give a damn about hurt religious feelings, to live afraid of being murdered by crazy people with "hurt religious feelings" because I'm atheist or draw their their precious prophet. The problem is with them.

Of course the problem is with "them", paint it black man.

 

[innonimatu]

Of course in 2020 alone the Delhi massacre angry Hindus mobs in India killed 53 Muslim is too little to you, but a Muslim extremist killed 1 people that would be too much for you (edit: Lets microscope the whole Muslim body!).

You deliberately cut ", compared to the number killed by sectarian wars among islamic groups." from the quote.
Now would you care to answer that?

Haa? Try to shake off what? I think you the one who try to shake off and trivialized the problem and causalities of Islamophobia that you are currently propagating here.

Of course the problem is with "them", paint it black man.

I don't have to paint anything black, the islamic fanatics are quite effective painters. How people react to them is both natural and inevitable. Self-defense is not "islamophobia".

 

[Narz]

we have dinner together, and you drew a face of the Prophet at the dinner table

I wouldn't do that of course and someone who would is asking for trouble but still shouldn't be killed

 

[H4run]

You deliberately cut ", compared to the number killed by sectarian wars among islamic groups." from the quote.
Now would you care to answer that?

It's an incoherence comparison, you are comparing the number of the Muslims killed by bunches of racist Islamophobes Mobs with the number of Muslims that got killed by radical Muslims. So what? Both of the victim are Muslims, yet you want to use that premises to build a conclusion that "Islam is the problem, all Muslim must gather and feel sorry and stop to shake it off".

While my comparison is with the number of Muslim extremists that launch a lone wolf operation against civilian in the West. With the number of Nationalist and Islamophobes that launch a lone-wolf operation against Muslims.

I don't have to paint anything black, the islamic fanatics are quote effective painters. How people react to them is both natural and inevitable. Self-defense is not "islamophobia".

What reaction? You mean the lynching and killing against the self assess Muslim fanatic? like the lynching in India was self-defense? Christ-Church shooter was an act of self-defenses? An assault of 3 pregnant Muslims women in Ausie by the nationalist extremist was a self-defense?

You are no better than Muslim extremist btw, the core principle of the lone-wolf operation of both Muslim and Nationalist extremist is that they blur the border between combatant and civilian. The Global Jihadist like ISIS believes, because the Western government who intervene with the political conflict in Middle East was elected by its people, hence the Western people as an active voter are equally targets.

 

[Kyriakos]

The real problem is that islamic fanaticism is being promoted and protected by very powerful countries, interested in using those fanatics in their imperial wars. And lets not forget, wars that were cheered on by many of the forum members here. The "moderate" rebel cutthroats in Syria, the slavers in Lybia, etc.

Germany had the Ottoman Empire declare a jihad in the first world war, in the hope it would cause large scale revolts in French and British colonies. Some western countries indeed had no issue with using religious war even only 100 years ago ^_^ And they tend to be in the set of those practicing genocide as well.