General Politics Thread

[Samson]

I would guess the main reason is that the areas that would want to be in greater Serbia are so intertwined with the other areas that either the resultant countries would be so split up as to be impractical without full freedom of movement and employment between them and/or including many localities that would want to be in the other bit. Also that does provide ample incentive for ethnic cleansing, which do not go well last time.

Here is wikis ethnicity map:

Population density and ethnic distribution (2013 census data)

 

[Gorbles]

Is there a reason Bosnia should be held together by force of UN/NATO arms? It just sounds like trying to keep a mini-Yugoslavia together, and unfortunately that didn’t work either.

So, to be clear, you're saying it's okay to launch a full-on insurrection with the apparent support of other international powers (like Russia), but it's not okay to defend the existing country from that insurrection with the support of international powers (like NATO)?

Sorry, I'm struggling to understand what level of foreign involvement is acceptable here. Surely the aim is "to keep a country whole despite the aims of some rather violent and armed nationalists"? Or at the very least "secede democratically and with a minimal level of violence"?

 

[mitsho]

No it does not. Taxes are not required for government spending #MMT.

I‘m sorry, I don‘t get quite what you are saying. Care to elaborate?

Yeah, theoretically, we don‘t need taxes as there are other ways one can generate money (or maybe we don‘t need money at all), but I feel like this is such a basic discussion that it would need more place than this thread

As for Bosnia, those are worrying news. I do agree that splitting up the country is just not feasible. I don‘t have any fear for an outbreak of violence - unless outside actors need a distraction. And that‘s why „we“ have to remain active for now with the help needed.

 

[Samson]

I‘m sorry, I don‘t get quite what you are saying. Care to elaborate?

Yeah, theoretically, we don‘t need taxes as there are other ways one can generate money (or maybe we don‘t need money at all), but I feel like this is such a basic discussion that it would need more place than this thread

I was kind of joking. Modern monetary theory (at least when reduced to internet memes) says that governments can spend whatever they like, independent of taxation. Taxation is required to control inflation, not to fund government spending. Yeah, we have had at least one thread on exactly this, and I just threw it in here for no good reason.

 

[amadeus]

So, to be clear, you're saying

Very seldom is "so you're saying" associated with what the other person is actually saying.

I'm saying that the choice should be left to the Bosnians, Serb and Bosniak alike, and if the Serb population really wants out of Bosnia than I don't think it's productive to hold the country together. Russian intervention? Well, probably a good idea for them to tread lightly in how far they want to go stirring the Muslim hornet nest while they have had their own problems in Chechnya.

 

[Drakle]

Very seldom is "so you're saying" associated with what the other person is actually saying.

I'm saying that the choice should be left to the Bosnians, Serb and Bosniak alike, and if the Serb population really wants out of Bosnia than I don't think it's productive to hold the country together. Russian intervention? Well, probably a good idea for them to tread lightly in how far they want to go stirring the Muslim hornet nest while they have had their own problems in Chechnya.

That line of reasoning could be used to excuse literally any ethnic cleansing or genocide.


Anyway from the so-called Liberal Media.

The GOP Candidate is engaging in race-baiting lies, which we know for an absolute fact are nonsense. What a savvy, 'optimistic vision for the future'.

These culture war stories, keep working because the established corporate media plays along with it.

 

[amadeus]

That line of reasoning could be used to excuse literally any ethnic cleansing or genocide.

That would be a weird thing to try to do because genocide is what I would want avoided the most.

 

[Drakle]

That would be a weird thing to try to do because genocide is what I would want avoided the most.

Serbians aren't being genocided in Bosnia. If they aggressively act up, then the US and EU can put them down, like the last time they tried ethnic cleansing.

 

[Gorbles]

Very seldom is "so you're saying" associated with what the other person is actually saying.

Well, it's often hard to work out from a vaguely-worded opinion, so I guess that's lessons learned all around

I'm saying that the choice should be left to the Bosnians, Serb and Bosniak alike, and if the Serb population really wants out of Bosnia than I don't think it's productive to hold the country together. Russian intervention? Well, probably a good idea for them to tread lightly in how far they want to go stirring the Muslim hornet nest while they have had their own problems in Chechnya.

The problem we have with your opposition to NATO intervention is that other countries aren't playing by the same rules. So it's not "NATO doesn't get involved and everything is hunky-dory". It's "NATO doesn't get involved and a bunch of armed Serbian nationalists start killing people". Theoretically. Though, I've got to admit, looking slightly more than theoretical at the moment. With the added whisper of support from nations not aligned with "the West".

If the Serb population, by majority, wants out of Bosnia, then they should do it democratically. If they want to shoot the entire country to pieces to get what they want, and ally with foreign powers to do so, isn't that something worthy of criticism? What do you think should be done? Someone send them a stern letter?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Break it up and expand Croatia and Serbia?

 

[Lexicus]

Break it up and expand Croatia and Serbia?

The simplest solution at this point seems to be to get rid of all the Serbian nationalists. Pack them up, move them out of the Balkans, maybe to Chad or India or something.

 

[Samson]

Break it up and expand Croatia and Serbia?

As pointed out by the map I posted earlier, the problem is where do you draw the lines. There is enough mixing that you either have to split it up house by house, or have significant populations in the "wrong" country. And that is not getting into the other ethnicities there. I do not know what the solution is, except perhaps EU expansion and that is getting less and less likely.

The simplest solution at this point seems to be to get rid of all the Serbian nationalists. Pack them up, move them out of the Balkans, maybe to Chad or India or something.

While there is a certain elegance to this, the Croat / Muslim conflict is not going anywhere and those people you want to move have lots of guns (and I mean lots, more than any community I have experienced in the US).

 

[Broken_Erika]

Why Syrians face deportation from Turkey over banana jokes
Laughing and joking on camera, Syrians have been taking part in the latest craze to sweep social media in Turkey.

In playful TikTok videos, they've been eating bananas and challenging their friends to do so.

The videos seem harmless enough, standard fare for TikTok these days. But while trends come and go, these videos could have lasting consequences for some Syrians.

In recent days, Turkish authorities have accused Syrians of "inciting hatred" for eating bananas in a "provocative" way. Several Syrians have been arrested and face deportation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59133076

 

[Lexicus]

While there is a certain elegance to this, the Croat / Muslim conflict is not going anywhere and those people you want to move have lots of guns (and I mean lots, more than any community I have experienced in the US).

I admit, I'm a bit prejudiced in this matter because I've had the displeasure of interacting in real life with some "Milosevic was a hero unfairly pilloried by the (((media)))" people...

 

[H4run]

Why Syrians face deportation from Turkey over banana jokes
Laughing and joking on camera, Syrians have been taking part in the latest craze to sweep social media in Turkey.

In playful TikTok videos, they've been eating bananas and challenging their friends to do so.

The videos seem harmless enough, standard fare for TikTok these days. But while trends come and go, these videos could have lasting consequences for some Syrians.

In recent days, Turkish authorities have accused Syrians of "inciting hatred" for eating bananas in a "provocative" way. Several Syrians have been arrested and face deportation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59133076

Turks become increasingly racist, some fake old counter-extremist articles like from RAND, Quilliam and others that built the narration that migrants are inherently packs of criminals that often get translated and feed toward population also not much help, if not giving some academic "credential" to their racist stance.

There are many kidnappings that happened mostly by ultra-nationalists, one Syrian youth who went for Friday prayer in Konya got coerced to enter a car and disappear till now just recently and the list still goes on. I remember shared an article here where Afghans Uzbek get kidnapped, lynch and force to praise Ataturk and the Turkish race, tragically the Uzbek is probably more Turk than these youths.

It's really a sad situation, especially because I know their great hospitality and how welcoming they were to foreigners before all of these craps.

 

[Berzerker]

Amazing you don't understand anything you responded to.

How is it a issue for McCauliffe if his opponent is in favour of racist puritanical censorship, unless you are also in favour of that censorship? Are you? Do you think that history should be whitewashed, and that people, even people doing college level classes, shouldn't learn a accurate history of the slave era? Because that's the issue. There is nothing self inflicted about McCauliffe hitting back on the fact that his opponent doesn't believe in education. Republicans just prefer talking about nonsense, rather than the fact that their regressive policy platform only helps the rich and big business, and which is deeply unpopular, and why they lie so often.

And you don't understand what tarrifs are. Tarrifs are a tax that a consumer pays to import a item, not a tax on China. Trump tarrifs led to declining manufacturing, because American manufacturing relies on Chinese imputs. And Chinese retaliation, damaged American farmers, with Trump diverting hundreds of billions to shore up the self inflicted wound, while China switched to buying soybeans off Brazil.

Taxes have deadweight costs to them. Economists universally consider Tarrifs to have far greater economic dead weight costs, than simple income taxes.

Its an issue for McCauliffe because he effectively told parents to butt out of the schools. He was up ~5 before that and sank ~10 pts, he might still win but it was a window into the culture war between the establishment and the people. A tariff can be a tax on China if China subsidizes exports to protect marketshare. As you noted, Trump propped up domestic agriculture when China retaliated - both countries paid tariffs.

As for the utility of tariffs, my main problem is special interests bribing politicians for protection from competition. But a tax on seller/buyer at least ballparks where the burden of paying for government lies, like a gas tax for roads. I'd have to examine the tariffs China and the US had before Trump but I think theirs were more restrictive. I think fair trade was the goal, not the reality.

 

[Farm Boy]

Countries collect tariffs, not pay them. They're a tax. The times if plenty are over, for the moment, it seems. Shortages all over the food chain. Let's hope that doesn't get too interesting.

But that's trade politics as usual. Food is a pretty tried and true political football. If it didn't hurt, it wouldn't be.

 

[r16]

serbian success inevitably involves killing Bosnians while protected by Russians . There will inevitably come a moment that it will be too much , even if lzzetbegovic did sterling service to Western interests by fighting with TV cameras , keeping dead grandmothers on the pavement as if public anger at the Serbs would do anything , all the same hindering anti-sniper snipers by all means possible . Firing anti-tank missiles have indeed become vommon place over the years , but anyhow . Accordingly when some accident happens to the Serbians , it will either stop or escalate , and yes , everybody has seen European military powers proven to be some sort of sissies . You know , leading to mighty lSlL afterwards . Or a nuclear exchange and yeah , that will be even scarier .

of course there is always a background . In some TV reportage some locals say the Syrians , the refugees who supposedly are in dire straits , are making more money . As proven by the thing that they buy bananas . Syrians , who are rich enough to have time to waste on twitter and fecebook , considering they are those who do great by exploiting [poor] Syrians in company with their New Turkey partners , start the banana meme . These Syrians are so full of themselves and assured of owning this country , that one places a banana over what you guess in the flag . And , no , there is no increased racism or anything . Just a cover-up , now that the almost racists are waiting for American orders to their thing , you know , about killing the Jews . Only to keep their purity and avoid any self doubts , like some 7 will be deported . To live as usual in Syria , overlords of the poor of some place like Germany as kings and queens who will not need Welfare . Yeah , indeed any Turk defending him/herself is a bad one . Like since the 18th century .

 

[Sommerswerd]

Manchin calls Biden's $1.75 trillion spending proposal a "shell game"

Manchin calls Biden's $1.75 trillion spending bill a "shell game," demands "clarity" before proceeding - CBS News

Manchin is having a good time playing cat v. laser pointer with Biden and the rest of the Democrats over the spending bill. It's a little annoying, but I have to admit that I think I find it a little bit more funny than annoying... the way he keeps toying with them/ pulling the rug out from under them/ snatching the football away right before they kick it/ moving the goalposts... whatever humorous metaphor you want to use... he's just pwning the crap out of them so hard.

And the funniest thing is... he isn't technically moving goalposts at all... he was 100% clear from the very beginning that he would not go above 1.5 trillion. They just keep trying... with no leverage whatsoever... to get him to change his position... because... "its what the majority of them want"? I guess?? But what they don't seem to grasp is that it isn't what the majority wants. That's the whole problem, they don't have a majority for it, that's why they can't pass it. They have a "majority" of their minority, which is just another way of saying they are in the minority in terms of passing the bill.

They need to just stop embarrassing themselves and give Manchin what he wants... which is what was always what was going to happen anyway.

 

[r16]

and after reading the BBC article , which doesn't change anything , this so called Victory Party is one man from almost racist ranks . Who suddenly proved to be an A-K-P fan of sorts when this good party thing started gaining traction . His outbursts are meant to hold the fort , by becoming far too much racist as the PM is supposedly reported to be wearing size 55 shoes , in French or Parisian scale , because of illnesses that keep reported , possibly as a joke to keep him standing , without issues , long enough . And the reported pro minority party is of course the seperatists , whose oil pipeline to the Mediterraean , would be more possible if they could convince lhvan to keep the rumoured Turks under control with openly allying with them , instead of making ungodly amounts of money by controlling New Turkey with false promises . But not to worry , Boris Johnson's ancestry now extending back to a Circassian girl sold as a slave . When everything fails , London will find a new minority that supposedly came so close to beating the evil Turk , like in 1920 or 21 or whatever .