Homeland Security to New York: Drop Dead

[JohnRM]

No matter how badly Michael Chertoff's guts feel, everyone is so confident that the terrorists aren't going to follow us home as long as we're in Iraq that they're refusing to give more money to New York to defend it.



So even if the DHS's argument that our forms were bureaucratic nightmares last year was valid, apparently they decided to help us out with the application for funds, and we still get shafted. Given that New York is always at "orange plus" when it comes to the Rainbow of Terror, you would think that the country would want to back us up, especially since Chertoff's tummy ache.

Couldn't they spare some of the money the feds take from the city in taxes that it doesn't give back? Maybe the people in these departments think so highly of our counter-terrorist teams that they think we'll do just fine on our own?

It's impossible to adequately plan a defense if we get the rug pulled out from under us then have to rely on begging the DHS for funding. Unless Chertoff feels like an attack would be a good thing because this time he called it, thus he can't be blamed for it.

Where is it quoted in the article that Chertoff said to the NY Officials, "drop dead" ?

 

[The Yankee]

It's a ripoff from the famous New York Daily News cover:

 

[JohnRM]

It's a ripoff from the famous New York Daily News cover:

I just wanted to establish the bias, here.

 

[Godwynn]

Stocks Skid! The Dow down 12! The times have changed!

 

[JohnRM]

Stocks Skid! The Dow down 12! The times have changed!

Yeah, 12 points is nothing!! Now, its more like 120 points for the same statement to be true.

 

[Godwynn]

Yeah, 12 points is nothing!! Now, its more like 120 points for the same statement to be true.

In October of 1975 the Dow Jones was around 836. So 12 points was about 1.5% percent. To get that same percentage today it would have to be damn near exactly 200 points.

I wish my parents would've socked something away back in 1975.

 

[JohnRM]

In October of 1975 the Dow Jones was around 836. So 12 points was about 1.5% percent. To get that same percentage today it would have to be damn near exactly 200 points.

I wish my parents would've socked something away back in 1975.

It was a very rough guess, Godwynn, without breaking out the calculator.

 

[mrt144]

its not a question of nyc vs. la; no, its nyc vs the entire state of wyoming. or montana.

 

[Godwynn]

It was a very rough guess, Godwynn, without breaking out the calculator.

I know. I have a compulsion to find percentages in different time periods, so I was doing it for myself.

 

[The Yankee]

I just wanted to establish the bias, here.

It's nice and catchy, though Ford did complain that he never told the city to drop dead either. Different situation, really. However, given all the talk about making sure we have everything we need, I find it curious the excuses they come up with for not chipping in more to help out with all the targets we have to deal with.

I do find people ranting about having to "fund New York," channeling Gingrich's rant about Georgia subsidizing New York even though it's really the other way around. I get that we send out far more tax dollars than we'll ever get back, but I'd like to see some backup here so that we can keep our current numbers of cops (recruitment is down because the starting pay is atrocious) and firefighters without having to raise local taxes even more than they've been raised.

After all, given the national importance of a lot of targets here, it would make sense. Same goes for the DC area and it might apply to Chicago as well as several other areas.

Bias? Probably, but it's nowhere near the ridiculous level that BasketCase accused me of having.

 

[Bill3000]

its not a question of nyc vs. la; no, its nyc vs the entire state of wyoming. or montana.

NYC is more valuable than both of those states combined.

 

[IglooDame]

I wonder if Chertoff is trying to teach Mayor Bloomberg a lesson about public commentary on terrorist attacks?

"You think the plot to blow up the JFK fuel farm was much ado about nothing? Well then, maybe your DHS anti-terrorism allocation should be adjusted accordingly."

 

[The Yankee]

I wonder if Chertoff is trying to teach Mayor Bloomberg a lesson about public commentary on terrorist attacks?

"You think the plot to blow up the JFK fuel farm was much ado about nothing? Well then, maybe your DHS anti-terrorism allocation should be adjusted accordingly."

Maybe you're onto something:

link (no idea if you need a login or not, since I have mine)

New York Tunnel Plot Is Uncovered in Early Stage

By JOHN O'NEIL
Published: July 7, 2006

A terrorist plot to set off explosives in the PATH railway tunnels under the Hudson River in October or November was disrupted in its planning stages, and several suspects in the plot have been apprehended, law enforcement officials said today.

Mark J. Mershon, the agent in charge of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's New York office, said at a news conference this afternoon that Lebanese officials had taken the plot's "mastermind" into custody in Beirut and that he had confessed. Mr. Mershon said that the Lebanese officials had identified the suspect as Assem Hammoud, a 31-year-old Lebanese native, and reported that Mr. Hammoud had sworn allegiance to Al Qaeda.Mr. Mershon said two of the other eight people he described as "principal players" in the plot had been taken into custody in other countries, although none had yet been charged with any crimes. He said that an investigation was continuing, involving six countries on three continents.

Also at the news conference were Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly of New York. Mr. Bloomberg said the thwarted plot illustrated once again why the city deserves more federal funds to counter terrorism.

"This is just another example, in a long line of them, as to why we have to continue to keep our vigilance up, and why, with homeland security funding, we can do that," he said. "The American government should give out homeland security monies based on risk."

No one involved in the plot had set foot in the United States, Mr. Mershon said. Mr. Kelly said no bomb materials had been acquired and no reconnaissance had been conducted by the plotters.

But Mr. Mershon said the arrests overseas were made at a crucial time. "The plot had matured to the point where the individuals were about to go to a phase where they would attempt to surveil targets, establish a regimen of attacks and acquisition of the resources needed to effectuate the attacks," he said.

A statement issued jointly by the F.B.I. and the Department of Homeland Security earlier today said that while "Al Qaeda continues to have an interest in attacking the United States," there is "no specific or credible information that Al Qaeda is planning an attack on U.S. soil."

The plot was first reported by The Daily News, which said that Mr. Hammoud and an unknown number of other people were planning to detonate a bomb in the Holland Tunnel in the hope of flooding Lower Manhattan.

Mr. Mershon said today that the Holland Tunnel was not, in fact, the plot's target. He described it as plot involving "martyrdom, explosives and certain of the tubes connecting New Jersey and Lower Manhattan."

Michael Chertoff, the secretary of Homeland Security, said in Boston this afternoon that a "threat stream" had come to light several months ago, but he declined to give any details on what the plot's target was.

Mr. Chertoff said that federal, state and local authorities had taken "immediate steps to disrupt the completion of any plot."

Mr. Chertoff acknowledged that the plot did not pose an imminent threat. But he said the London railway bombings, which took place a year ago today, showed the importance of quick action in the face of threats, even those in their early stages. "The distance between planning and actual operations is a very short distance," he said.

"Sometimes, that causes skeptics to say the threats are not really serious," he said. "But mixing a bomb in a bathtub does not require rocket science."

Mr. Chertoff said railways remain "a safe mode of operation," while acknowledging that the risk of attack could not be eliminated entirely.

"We shouldn't let terrorists bully us into getting off the train," he said, adding that he believed that Americans were willing to live with "a certain amount of risk." The statement issued by the F.B.I. and the Department of Homeland Security said the investigation was "ongoing" and was being conducted with the help of security forces in Lebanon and "other foreign law enforcement and intelligence partners."

Representative Peter T. King, the chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, said today that even though the Holland Tunnel was not the target this time, the tunnel has been a target of terrorists before, including a plot against the Hudson River tunnels and other New York landmarks uncovered after the World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

Senator Charles E. Schumer praised the work done by law-enforcement officials and said the arrest in Lebanon was the result of intercepted Internet conversations. "They were caught by people talking," he said. "In this case, intelligence did its job."

Both Mr. Schumer and Mr. King said that the investigation showed that Mr. Chertoff was wrong to direct more federal financing toward infrastructure improvements rather than helping to pay for personnel involved in anti-terrorism efforts.

"This is very draining on New York City's treasury," Mr. King said in a televised interview, referring to the investigation. "Without going into detail, an extraordinary amount of money has been spent by the New York City Police Department on this particular plot."

It might explain why nobody looked happy in the press conference photo taken with the story:

 

[BasketCase]

I fail to see the logic in your argument. So, you are saying NY is not the most important city in the nation because some millions of LAer think it is not? Are you saying a city cannot be the most important unless it status is unanimously agreed upon by every American?
Aren't you also saying that a city's importance is determined entirely by people's opinion?

None of the above. All I did was remind everybody what other people have been saying. And not just here in the U.S., or in the last six years, either. I pointed out what humans have been saying to each other, WORLDWIDE, for all of recorded history.

Everybody thought they were the center of the universe. Emperors ordered their mapmakers to put their nation at the center of the map. City lords drew their maps with their beloved city magnified many times. Womens' rights advocates demand more money to stop violence against women. The NAACP demands more money for blacks. State governors demand more federal money for their territories.

The spat detailed in the OP is merely more of the same: the old-fashioned budget squabble. In a world with finite resources and infinite wants, such squabbles are unavoidable.

Every mayor thinks their city is the most important one. But they (and Yankee, and other people here in CFC) are measuring their various trophy cities using values that can't be quantified. Unlike a Civ4 game, there's no variable indicating that New York has 4,197 culture points. Culture isn't a number and cannot be measured.

The next terrorist attack in the U.S. will almost certainly be somewhere other than New York City. When it happens, think of me.

 

[BasketCase]

Given the main thrust of Bush's surveillance policies, a re-read of Orwell will reveal it was Bush he was warning you about.

No. Padme Amidalla put it very simply in that last Star Wars movie. "This is how liberty dies--with thunderous applause".

Citizens venerate a new dictatorship. Either that or they mysteriously disappear in the night and are never seen again.

Many people are openly unhappy with the Bush Administration, and are not being made to disappear. That's how I know the Bush Administration isn't the threat to liberty that you claim it to be.

The danger of "four legs good, two legs bad" lies in falling into the trap of thinking the Bush Administration is always wrong about absolutely everything.

 

[FriendlyFire]

No. Padme Amidalla put it very simply in that last Star Wars movie. "This is how liberty dies--with thunderous applause".

Many people are openly unhappy with the Bush Administration, and are not being made to disappear. That's how I know the Bush Administration isn't the threat to liberty that you claim it to be.

yes all 70% of the American people "disappearing" all of a sudden !
Now that would certainly be something. Or more IRONICLY a seizure of power during a time of war with objectors denounced as tratiors and massive amounts of propogander / distorted information.

seriouly StarWars ? I thought it was an antibush film

 

[The Yankee]

The spat detailed in the OP is merely more of the same: the old-fashioned budget squabble. In a world with finite resources and infinite wants, such squabbles are unavoidable.]

If they really can't find more than $1.7 billion for the Urban Defense, then the solution is simple. Stop handing out Bridges to Nowhere and start handing out equipment to help First Responders.

Every mayor thinks their city is the most important one. But they (and Yankee, and other people here in CFC) are measuring their various trophy cities using values that can't be quantified. Unlike a Civ4 game, there's no variable indicating that New York has 4,197 culture points. Culture isn't a number and cannot be measured.

That's crap and it's highly insulting. You still haven't shown anywhere where I've suggested that New York is be-all and end-all. I brought my evidence to the table, you throw out insulting remarks that all I do is root for the home team.

The next terrorist attack in the U.S. will almost certainly be somewhere other than New York City. When it happens, think of me.

So, because of your enlightened prediction, the solution is, obviously, forget to adequately provide for their defense anyway. Especially given the track record of it being a high-profile target, both in successful and unsuccessful attacks. I've noticed you're very good at shooting down ideas or correcting mistakes in this thread, but you're not going to propose an alternative. You haven't done so here.

 

[Whomp]

I find it hard to believe the terror strategy has changed from high profile cities, transportation, finance, government or military targets to attempts on places like Louisville(up 70 percent), Charlotte(64 percent) and St. Louis (31 percent)?? Sounds like a political slush fund to me.

 

[mrt144]

I find it hard to believe the terror strategy has changed from high profile cities, transportation, finance, government or military targets to attempts on places like Louisville(up 70 percent), Charlotte(64 percent) and St. Louis (31 percent)?? Sounds like a political slush fund to me.

Lets not even start talking about state funds from the federal government for homeland secuirity.