Homeschooling German family granted US asylum

[uppi]

Um...I'm kind of speculating about this, and if anyone from Germany could back me up/correct me on this, but isn't homeschooling in Germany a lot less feasible due to their education system?
I mean, you start specializing at the age we're just going into high school. Can someone who went to the Realschule can you give a gymnasium education?

I don't think so. I would even argue, that someone who only went to the gymnasium would not be equipped to give a gymnasium education. The problem starts with the lesson during which the parents slept in school, goes on with different specialization (someone who went to a school that taught Latin and Ancient Greek as languages might not be the best person to teach English and French) and ends with the different educational standards between now and then (and due to federalism, between different states).

If you went to the Gymnasium can you give a Realschule education?

Probably for most subjects, but there are subjects, where someone who attended a gymnasium is clueless about.

Of course parents could try to learn about the subjects they know nothing about to teach them to their children. But children tend to notice and get frustrated, when the teacher is ahead exactly one lesson.

How can a University effectively assess your abilities if you've never been to either?

I would probably work like it works now with private schools approved, but not recognized by the state: The pupils have to make their final exams at a state school and the grades from that exam will be the ones that count.

However, the only thing required to attend most German university programs is that you have graduated from a gymnasium or an equivalent school. There are a lot, where everyone who has that and applies is accepted. Thus they don't need to assess your abilities before hand, they just make the program hard enought that you'll leave if you don't meet their standards.

 

[Riffraff]

Ah, our absolutely ********, three-tiered school-system has entered the discussion. if you want to slam german educational policies - this should definately be your target. Allowing or not allowing homeschooling is about a 1000x less important.

 

[warpus]

How can any one be absolutly sure Evolution or Creationism is ture? No one was there to observe what happend. After all the Scientific method requires observation does it not?

This is a bit off topic for the thread.. but you do not seem to have a good understanding of the scientific method. I would read up on it a bit before making statements like that

 

[Omega124]

The organization of education is supposed to benefit the children - not the parent.
A children is not yet able to decide for his or herself. Now what I can't see is how this automatically negates all rights of a children and transfers them to the parent.

Because IMO a children definitely should have the right to make up it's own mind. This is ensured by public schools / officially approved private schools, where they get in contact with other people, other world views, different teachers and opinions.
Homeschooling means nothing else than a free ticket for parents to deprive their children of this very important right.

People whine about the infringed freedom of the parents? It is a universal moral code that your freedom goes only as far as it does not infringe somebody else's freedom. So what about the freedom of the children's mind?

And ya sure are home schooling kids not destined to be retards or social cripples. So I guess we should start to hit our children again. In former times this did not prevent them to live normal lives either, did it?

One should also keep in mind that in Germany universities will usually assume a higher level of education already acquired than they probably do in the US (I don't know about the UK).

That said: I don't mind the asylum. IMO it makes some legal sense. Not common though.

http://www.ulinks.com/topuniversities.htm

Let's see...

Germany has around 5* schools in the top ONE HUNDERED. UK has around 11*. US of A has around 55*. Please stop feeding us BS.

(The above user is not, I repeat, NOT responsible for any slight errors on counting above list. The general number, however, is correct.

 

[REDY]

i dont see the merits of producing social retards.

what kind of society would want that?

Yeah, because what society realy needs are unfounded stereothypes

 

[Riffraff]

http://www.ulinks.com/topuniversities.htm

Let's see...

Germany has around 5* schools in the top ONE HUNDERED. UK has around 11*. US of A has around 55*. Please stop feeding us BS.

(The above user is not, I repeat, NOT responsible for any slight errors on counting above list. The general number, however, is correct.

The US could have 100/100 and it would still be irrelevant to his point.

 

[uppi]

http://www.ulinks.com/topuniversities.htm

Let's see...

Germany has around 5* schools in the top ONE HUNDERED. UK has around 11*. US of A has around 55*. Please stop feeding us BS.

(The above user is not, I repeat, NOT responsible for any slight errors on counting above list. The general number, however, is correct.

Showing off your reading comprehension, are you?

 

[Earthling]

Germany has around 5* schools in the top ONE HUNDERED. UK has around 11*. US of A has around 55*.

That doesn't refute the statement at all. Not even close, really - it's a pretty big fallacy. First the ranking doesn't indicate specifically selectivity of universities, and secondly the ranking doesn't reflect on the entire nation's worth of universities at all either.

Edit: Holy xpost Batman!

 

[GoodSarmatian]

http://www.ulinks.com/topuniversities.htm

Let's see...

Germany has around 5* schools in the top ONE HUNDERED. UK has around 11*. US of A has around 55*. Please stop feeding us BS.

(The above user is not, I repeat, NOT responsible for any slight errors on counting above list. The general number, however, is correct.

And what do the top universities have to do with the level of education in schools ?
If you want to attend university in Germany you need Abitur which means two or three years education on top of the usual ten years.
So yes, when a German kid finishes school he's already had some more advanced courses than an USian who just finished high school.

Edit: Wow, quadruple crosspost. I almost feel bad for ganging up on this guy so quickly.

 

[Riffraff]

Worse than a pack of starved wolves tearing up a lost sheep

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Worse than a pack of starved wolves tearing up a lost sheep

 

[aelf]

Another homeschool specimen?

 

[innonimatu]

Uh, theories should approximate (i.e. be subject to empirical evidence) the truth. Otherwise, you're just wasting time.

The standards of homeschooling don't seem all that promising, if this thread is anything to go by. I think homeschooling could be allowed, but homeschooled kids should not be able to receive full welfare benefits should they prove unable to adjust as well to life in society as adults. And maybe they should be allowed to sue their parents if they don't like that.

Seems like a reasonable compromise, but I'm guessing that it would be impracticable.

Still...

We shouldn't have granted them asylum. This is stupid. Ban homeschooling we don't need untrained parents filling their kids heads with lies, nonsense, and propaganda.

... I'm glad that people can move out of Germany and find asylum where they can spit on the state-imposed german school system.

How far should a state go to "protect its citizens"? Is forcing their children all to attend a state-controlled school reasonable? Does it cross the line into the excessive? There is no definite answer.

The "protect the citizens" excuse can be used to justify virtually any form of meddling and control by a state over the life of one of its "citizens" - or should we more adequately call them "subjects"? But a state does not act, does not legislate, not does it enforces the law. A state is an abstraction. People do all those things - governments and its bureaucracy. And the german government can at least claim legitimacy (it is accepted as legitimate by most germans). So let them choose how schooling should happen there. And let those displeased with it leave.

 

[Ecofarm]

Look, you guys know I'm not a grammar or spelling nazi. Lord knows, my spelling is atrocious...

But this...

Was just too funny to ignore...

Thank god there is a place on Earth where parents have the freedom to choose education for there children.

Parents have the right to educate childern.

I of the opinion that schooling should never be compulsory.

'proper' education is not a right. You have a right to bare arms,

C'mon guys! You did that on purpose, right?



Now, on to more serious observations...

We all know what goes on with these homeschooled kids. We've seen the big-eared boys.

Doesn't anyone care about the big-eared boys?

A homeschooled child, pictured yesterday

I care Ralph. Please, tell me WTH you're on about.

 

[holy king]

Yeah, because what society realy needs are unfounded stereothypes

i dont need a study to know that homeschooled kids dont have as good a chance to develop their social skills as kids who go to school.

 

[Cheetah]

You should be free to homeschool your children without interferance from the state.

No they shouldn't! As long as I live in the same society as you and your children, I care very much about what you teach your kids! As would all sensible people.

Education should be compulsory.

Homeschooling is education.

Education is education, they are being educated, thus their right upheld. Stop with this crap that they're being deprived. The quality does not factor into them cashing in on their right.

What is being taught is of great importance, don't you think? A kid going to a madrasah school in Saudia Arabia is getting an education, but not one that you or I would support. Or kids in North Korea who are continuously taught that Kim is a great leader, that the outside world is in an even worse state than North Korea and that the US is evil. They are also getting a compulsory education.

because I will start a band and claim that I am ashamed that the foreign minister of Germany is from Westphalia which I can do because I was born there.

A bit unrelated, but why start a band?

Parents have the right to educate their childern.

I am Homeschooled by the way.

There is actally no way to prove that creationism OR evolution is right. In the end they are just theories.

How can any one be absolutly sure Evolution or Creationism is ture? No one was there to observe what happend. After all the Scientific method requires observation does it not?

How does Homeschooling make kids social retards? If you go to school, you sit in a classroom most of the time.

I am sorry but wikipedia is not a viable source.

I would like to let you know that I am not a creationist, I am just saying Evolution can not be completely proven as turth.

So I gather that you were not taught that creationism is true and that evolution is humbug (which is good, of course), and yet you continuously prove that you do not have a sufficient understanding of evolution...

I'm adding you to my list of personal anecdotes for why home schooling is a bad idea.

Come on people, too many home schooled kids end up as social idiots, like the boy who asked my brother if he could take my niece to a church outing.
Cheeky little sod thought the brother would tell my niece she was required to go.
Too bad for him, he got a right earful from the lass for being both a god botherer and a idiotic bore.

I find in hard to even believe such a tale, unless you live in a village in tribal Pakistan or rural India or something similar.

Ah, our absolutely ********, three-tiered school-system has entered the discussion. if you want to slam german educational policies - this should definately be your target. Allowing or not allowing homeschooling is about a 1000x less important.

Guess it's off-topic, but what is ******** about a three-tiered school system? And I know Norway switched from Realskole and Gymnas in the 70's, but I haven't heard anything about that system being especially bad?

I care Ralph. Please, tell me WTH you're on about.

Something about big ears. Everyone else managed to leave it alone, why can't you?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Guess it's off-topic, but what is ******** about a three-tiered school system? And I know Norway switched from Realskole and Gymnas in the 70's, but I haven't heard anything about that system being especially bad?

The Program for International Student Assessment illustrated how the Norway-way seems to be superior.
But this study left aside it is just ridiculous to partition kids in different educational levels after the 4th grade. They just passed elementary school and have already to decide what way to go. Also elementary grades largely determine the decision, yet they have proven to have little validity.
And the third branch... "Hauptschule" is more and more obsolete in an economy which abolishes simple worker tasks step by step. Also it is a melting pot for pupils with bad family hoods and profoundly bad discipline making effective education very hard and even virtually impossible at times.

 

[aelf]

The Program for International Student Assessment illustrated how the Norway-way seems to be superior.
But this study left aside it is just ridiculous to partition kids in different educational levels after the 4th grade. They just passed elementary school and have already to decide what way to go. Also elementary grades largely determine the decision, yet they have proven to have little validity.
And the third branch... "Hauptschule" is more and more obsolete in an economy which abolishes simple worker tasks step by step. Also it is a melting pot for pupils with bad family hoods and profoundly bad discipline making effective education very hard and even virtually impossible at times.

Sounds almost exactly like the Singapore education system. But everyone loves it over there. It's the best way to create an elite that the country really needs.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Sounds almost exactly like the Singapore education system. But everyone loves it over there. It's the best way to create an elite that the country really needs.

43,1 percent of German students managed to pass the highest branch 2007. I would say 43,1 percent can hardly be all considered among the elite.

 

[aelf]

43,1 percent of German students managed to pass the highest branch 2007. I would say 43,1 percent can hardly be all considered among the elite.

Ah, but in Singapore we have about 4 tiers, with the top two consisting of probably about 1/3 or less of the student population. We also have very highly ranked private schools where the rich kids congregate. It's a good system for meeting the demands of the new economy.