How to get a job (or not)

[The_J]

I hate doing it too, because of the time zone issues. I've had to interview a guy at 6 AM because that was the only time he was free. Dislike.

But the whole thing is not good to hear. Had not thought that the visa process is such a problem. I guess that's why I haven't heard anything back from my applications in the US (at least one position was really fitting :/).


Slightly related, since you mention times: When you have email applications, do you look at the time when you received them? Will you look strange at somebody if you got his/her mail at 3 AM in the night?

I'm just curios about that. Personally I send bussiness related emails mostly only during office times (9 to 5, or so), because I'd definitely think strange things.
e.g. received once a rejection at half past 10 on a friday evening. Makes me a bit "WTH, does he/she not have anything better to do?".
(did not go through the HR department, so no slave work involved )

First, you don't have to give these at all unless somebody asks for them...don't bother mentioning references on your resume. I think you can get away with 2 references if one of them is a professional reference. If not, go for three personal references...a friend, somebody from school, a professor, etc.

There is a pretty good chance nobody will even ask for them though.

*grmpf* at least in the academic sector there goes nearly nothing without at least 2 references. You cannot even complete most application forms if you don't put 2 or 3 in. I know that, I have only 1 *grmpf*.
(sadly totally my own fault)

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

The easiest way (outside of the U.S. of Anglosphere) is to become a dissident / rights activist.

 

[downtown]

Slightly related, since you mention times: When you have email applications, do you look at the time when you received them? Will you look strange at somebody if you got his/her mail at 3 AM in the night?

I do, but I can't say my reaction would be anything like "oh, 3 AM. That's weird". It wouldn't color my judgement one way or the other. If all of our correspondence was at weird hours, I might ask them about it once I got him on the phone or in my office though.

I'm just curios about that. Personally I send bussiness related emails mostly only during office times (9 to 5, or so), because I'd definitely think strange things.
e.g. received once a rejection at half past 10 on a friday evening. Makes me a bit "WTH, does he/she not have anything better to do?".
(did not go through the HR department, so no slave work involved )

This isn't too uncommon with recruiters, since most of us work on commission. If you could get a finders fee of thousands of dollars (for certain kinds of professionals, a recruiter could get a fee in the five figures), you tend to work basically all hours. I have a pretty limited commission structure, so I'm a lot more strict about working after typical business hours. I worked with a 3rd party recruiter to get hired for my last job though, and we talked at 10 PM more than once.

*grmpf* at least in the academic sector there goes nearly nothing without at least 2 references. You cannot even complete most application forms if you don't put 2 or 3 in. I know that, I have only 1 *grmpf*.
(sadly totally my own fault)

I know there are a few exceptions to this...consulting and some public sector jobs are the same way. I assumed CivG wouldn't be applying to where that would be an issue right up front though. There are some fairly strict laws on what you can and can't ask during reference checks in the US, so I (along with lots of hiring manager I talk to) try to avoid doing it as much as possible.

 

[Zelig]

I know there are a few exceptions to this...consulting and some public sector jobs are the same way. I assumed CivG wouldn't be applying to where that would be an issue right up front though. There are some fairly strict laws on what you can and can't ask during reference checks in the US, so I (along with lots of hiring manager I talk to) try to avoid doing it as much as possible.

You try to avoid unnecessary references requirements, or you try to avoid checking references at all?

 

[downtown]

You try to avoid unnecessary references requirements, or you try to avoid checking references at all?

To be honest, both. If I HAVE to check a reference, I'm only asking for dates of employment and how much they made. Asking anything else opens me up to liability and lots of paperwork.

 

[Zelig]

Well that sounds awful. I want people to call up my distinguished professional references, so they can hear about how awesome I am.

And my references won't disclose my previous salaries anyway.

 

[downtown]

Well that sounds awful. I want people to call up my distinguished professional references, so they can hear about how awesome I am.

And my references won't disclose my previous salaries anyway.

This is why you should use LinkedIn, and ask those professors for a public recommendation. That way, the recruiter sees it and can factor that in (or show it to a client) without having to formally ask. That's the best work around.

Canadian HR law may not have the same requirements that US does on this issue as well.

 

[Zelig]

This is why you should use LinkedIn, and ask those professors for a public recommendation. That way, the recruiter sees it and can factor that in (or show it to a client) without having to formally ask. That's the best work around.

I assume you mean professionals, they're not necessarily professors.

But most of them aren't on LinkedIn.

 

[bonefang]

I am from a manpower sourcing firm, guys, while sitting for an interview, just remember, that the company needs you as much as you need the job.

If i might add, the company needs the candidate more, since, if a person is being paid 100 bucks, the value of the work the person has to do for the company would be not less than 500 bucks.

 

[Flying Pig]

The company needs someone, that someone might not be you, though. They want the best man for the job: the interview is about convincing them that you're that - the corrolary to what you've said is that they have no incentive at all to accept anything but the maximum output for the wages that they're paying.

 

[Integral]

To be honest, both. If I HAVE to check a reference, I'm only asking for dates of employment and how much they made. Asking anything else opens me up to liability and lots of paperwork.

This is incredibly valuable information. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Flying Pig]

Presumably though, if Downtown was recruiting for a job where integrity was a specifically required characteristic, he would be more inclined to check references more thoroughly?

 

[bonefang]

the interview is about convincing them that you're that

in the process of convincing the employers people start to blurt out stuff that portrays a guy was a push over.

 

[downtown]

Presumably though, if Downtown was recruiting for a job where integrity was a specifically required characteristic, he would be more inclined to check references more thoroughly?

Only if my client specifically asked me to. Otherwise, no.

 

[Murky]

I currently have a job. It would be nice to get a higher paying job. Advice?

 

[Zelig]

I currently have a job. It would be nice to get a hire paying job. Advice?

Make sure you don't misspell anything on your resume.

 

[Murky]

Make sure you don't misspell anything on your resume.

Fixed.

 

[downtown]

It totally depends on your location, your industry and your skills.

 

[Murky]

It totally depends on your location, your industry and your skills.

I don't want to get to into details. Just some general advice. I am a professional. I got the job I have now just be applying for it on the University website. They called me a few weeks after I applied. I was offered the job right after the interview. It's an okay job, but I think that I could do better in terms of salary and responsibilities. At the time, it seemed like a good offer considering the bad shape the economy was in.

Lately, I get a lot of calls and emails from recruiters who have found my resume that had been posted on job boards. So far, none of them have been able to help me connect to a better opportunity. I had some interviews but no reasonable offers. There also seems to be this industry push for 3-month contract to hire deals that look questionable as long-term prospects.

 

[downtown]

Do you want a raise at your company, or do you want to go work somewhere else?