Nope. A guy with that much experience is a flight risk. Recruiting is a pain in the butt, and I don't want to have to do it again for the same job in 3-4 months.
How to get a job (or not)
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Nope. A guy with that much experience is a flight risk. Recruiting is a pain in the butt, and I don't want to have to do it again for the same job in 3-4 months.
Integral
Can't you hear it?
You can see how that's disheartening from the perspective of someone on the outside. If you don't have enough experience, nobody wants to hire you because they don't want to invest time and money into training you. If you have too much experience, you're labelled a "flight risk." So where's the sweet spot?
(Knowing that the sweet spot depends on the job under consideration, the position, and the skillset required.)
No, being good enough to be promoted is fine too. You want somebody that isn't going to leave the organization for at least a year though. If you have a Masters Degree, and you're working at a 7/11, you're leaving the first chance you get at a "real" job.
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
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In all honesty, I probably would be a flight risk, as I'm twice as likely to leave for either a paid graduate program, the military, or restart my career than I am to keep a particular wage-slave job that was taken just to make ends meet.
Related to the "one-page" resume concept, have you ever read the "One Page Proposal" page proposal, Downtown? Apparently, I've read some people are trying to model or replace resumes with it.
Related to the "one-page" resume concept, have you ever read the "One Page Proposal" page proposal, Downtown? Apparently, I've read some people are trying to model or replace resumes with it.
Mise
isle of lucy
That's the opposite of the Peter Principle
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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Say, do you think that attitude happens in every kind of organization, or is it more likely to happen in the small ones? And would companies that outsource the recruiting care?
That's the opposite of the Peter Principle
Indeed. The Peter Principle is the bane of officers up to the rank of Major; it says that if you're good at your job you get promoted, and if you're bad but not disasterous at your job you stay in it. Essentially, this means that most long-service majors in the army are incompetant, because they were good enough as captains - hence they got promoted - but aren't good as majors - hence they haven't been promoted to Lt-Colonel. Generally avoided by 'up or out' systems, whereby anyone who isn't promoted within a certain amount of time is asked to leave.
Alternatively, many reasonably talented leaders end up coming unstuck by a similar principle; they take on a small job and their brilliance rapidly leads to promotion to a larger one, where they find themselves failing miserably. The reason for this is that in the first job they did well because they were clever enough not to need to delegate effectively, while in the second they failed because they weren't clever enough to be able to do so when they needed to.
Except asking a man to move down a payroll is awful for him; he'll almost certainly quit unless he's so loyal that you shouldn't be abusing him in the first place.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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So it seems that if people could somehow start believing that a demotion was not a punishment or something equally bad, we could all be more effective and happier at what we do...
I'm not sure it matters how big the company is. I see this with my huge clients, and with my tiny ones. I think the key factor is the industry. I have clients who may be willing to roll the dice on an overqualified guy for certain niche roles, but for an hourly worker, it just isn't worth it. You figure it takes 3 months for a new hire to finish training and hit their productivity stride...if somebody is a risk to leave before 6, you'll lose money hiring them.
Even companies that outsource recruiting (although not THAT many outsource it 100%) don't want high turnover. In addition to recruiting fees, which can be REALLY expensive for a firm, they're also on the hook for training, and for lower production from the new guy. A guy that you can promote is still a win...but you don't want somebody who will leave quickly, unless you're in volume sales or something.
I must be in the wrong industry... I just started a new job, with a deadline of roughly a month for my first project, for which the client is paying significantly more than my salary for.
We do all our hiring ourselves, and the biggest criteria is "fit". Will the person fit into the team. If they fit and have some of the necessary skills, then it is likely they will stay a year or more.
http://www.cio.com/article/701272/5...icant_Tracking_Systems?page=1&taxonomyId=3123
Thoughts from dt, or anyone else?
In my recent job search, I got pretty good callback rates (80%+) from applications via public sector online systems, personal/professional connections, and email, and abysmal (maybe 0%, I can't recall any off the top of my head) callbacks from private-sector online applications. Following this experience, in the future I can just not bother applying online to anything, and I'll get the exact same results.
Thoughts from dt, or anyone else?
In my recent job search, I got pretty good callback rates (80%+) from applications via public sector online systems, personal/professional connections, and email, and abysmal (maybe 0%, I can't recall any off the top of my head) callbacks from private-sector online applications. Following this experience, in the future I can just not bother applying online to anything, and I'll get the exact same results.
aelf
Ashen One
I highly doubt recruiters would be apologetic about that. It saves them time and effort after all, and the oversupply of relatively skilled workers probably means relying on an inefficient system wouldn't cost them that much.
Recruiting may be hard work, but so is applying for jobs; and you don't even get paid for the latter. Good luck getting recruiters to empathise, though. I don't think people with jobs can empathise very well with people who don't. Once I had a decent-paying job, I almost forgot how it felt like to be looking for work and dealing with recruiting processes - until my short contract is almost ending and I start to remember again.
Recruiting may be hard work, but so is applying for jobs; and you don't even get paid for the latter. Good luck getting recruiters to empathise, though. I don't think people with jobs can empathise very well with people who don't. Once I had a decent-paying job, I almost forgot how it felt like to be looking for work and dealing with recruiting processes - until my short contract is almost ending and I start to remember again.
I have hated every ATS I've worked with. They are most useful for legal documentation compliance, and if there was a way to work without them, I would. The best (or even competent) ATS systems are also a gazillion dollars, so nobody wants to spend the money to fix those problems. This article is pretty right on the money...I've only used one of the leading systems on the market that can handle a PDF without crashing, and tables mess everything up.
The one I use now does very little keyword sorting, which I like.
The one I use now does very little keyword sorting, which I like.
Why don't you/they hire someone to build a better program? It doesn't seem like it is that challenging to build such a thing, certainly not rocket science.
Though an online form might be easier then allowing people to upload their own document.
Though an online form might be easier then allowing people to upload their own document.
We don't have anybody in house with the kind of skills to do that, and ATS systems run in the tens of thousands, minimum. Cost is a huge issue. If there was an affordable alternative that didn't suck, I think that company would make a lot of money.
Might be more difficult than you think.
I know some people who did a bit work in data mining/text mining, and it really seems that parsing PDF files and extracting the correct data is really quite a hazzle and not easy to do. E.g. as one of the mentioned problems, it seems the parsers are not able to correctly read texts with 2 columns and just read over the 2 columns...
And a bit back more on topic: Don't see (in connection with the above) the problem with the taleo system. It extracts the data from the CVs and puts them in an online form, and you can correct the faulty data.
But then again I'm totally suprised that some of the systems cannot handle default data input (CVs with the dates at the beginning). How can you even sell such a thing o_O?
Mise
isle of lucy
Well I guess that's why sites like LinkedIn, Monster, Reed, Jobsite etc are so popular, because they tend to get users to input their CVs in a standardised format (often without the user really realising they're filling out an application form).
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